E10-Fuel soon E12

[mrsleeve]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
yes Brazil is using it heavily. Ok yeah sugar is a little more efficient but not much, still takes 2 1/2 times the energy to make fuel outta it compared to equal amount of gas with less BTU.

lets think about this for just a sec ok.
Brazil has 1.23 million mi of roads and 14,820,000 passenger cars, and 3,300,000 commercial vehicles. with a population of 191,971,506 people and a land mass of 3,300,171 sq. miles

the USA has 4 million miles of roads and 254,403,082 total registered vehicles with a population of 304 million. Land mass of 3,618,780 sq mi

So to recap we have 100m more people, we have 236,283,082 vehicles and 2.75m miles more roads and more land mass thats not impenetrable rain forest. We are spread out much more and a more mobile society. rather than being confined to a few population centers in the middle of the jungle. That = much more driving and more demand. In other words it may work there it wont work here. Oh that and Brazil is a big exporter of oil, thanks to its lower demands.



tyrred guy:
Yes but when the govt tells you we will pay you this much for corn for ethanol they will for go Hay, beans, wheat and barley, to have a price for their product with farm subsidies. If they take the subsidies then anything that comes off that land cant be used for anything but the ethanol. The only reason ethanol has so much sitting around is the govt pushing it the last 5 years.

If you dont have that land for food production it makes all food go up that contains corn, plus your meat products, that are tied to the price of Corn feed. You do the math and tell me that Ethanol fuels are cheaper and better than gas. Ethanol is WAY more expensive, you just dont see the total price at the pump like you do with petrol. You dont see the higher food prices or the full cost of production since the feds are pouring our tax dollars at it.

When it comes to land devted to it, we feed the world along with the help of Canada, with it. Really with out we would all starve.




Yes lee thats where it comes from


Moral of all this, You GROW FOOD and YOU EXTRACT FUEL

[McGyver]

corn is good for animal feed, but wouldn't sugar beats or sugar cane have more sugar to yield more alcohol? i believe Brazil uses ethanol made from sugar beats.

[imsotyerred]

corn isn't even very nutritional, American farmers shouldn't be committing as much land as they to growing it.

[Massive Lee]

Doesn't ethanol come from corn in the US? This would explain the huge lobby to increase its percentage in fuel. Corn is already a highly protected industry by itself. So selling a bit more corn can be profitable. The only problem I have is that while it is a bit cleaner in the air, producing ethanol requires massive production of corn, which pollutes the lands with heavy use of pesticides and other chemical products. Therefore, I am not yet persuaded the principle is ecological.

[mrsleeve]

I've been running E85 in my M30 turbo for a year now, stock fuel lines and no issues.
Cheaper and better than race gas plus makes more power.

Ok so it has not eaten your fuel system. I assume you have tuned the engine to run on the shit. Thus not running lean as hell with EGT's slightly cooler than the surface of the sun then. Like they would be if you were tuned for normal gas and then just dumped e85 in it.

[Potsy]

Good to see you on here Potsy. :)

I've been sprung....goes and hides;)

[Good & Tight]

I've been running E85 in my M30 turbo for a year now, stock fuel lines and no issues.
Cheaper and better than race gas plus makes more power.

[Iain]

Good to see you on here Potsy. :)

[Potsy]

In Australia, E10 is now very common.
You can still get normal 92RON ULP, but by next year, the only normal unleaded will be E10, no more regular ULP.
So in other words, you must then use 95 or 98, which at the moment is between 10 and 20c dearer per litre.
Happy times.... and you guys think USA Govermnent sucks

[CJ7]

ugh .. my E30 is gonna die

[mrsleeve]

^^^^^^^^^^^

Yup combustion temps are much higher.

[McGyver]

doesnt ethanol also burn at a higher temp than petrol and cause some sort of heat damage to the engine?

[mrsleeve]

The only reason the GOVT is considering this, is because the Ethanol industry is lobbying hard for it to use up current supply that is just sitting. because they have too much supply there for they are not making any money on it (laws of supply and demand) thanks to a bumper corn crop in last year, and what is shaping up to be another really good growing season this year. There are ethanol plants that are brand new built with our tax dollars that are now sitting mothballed and have never run a single bushel of corn, and we are still building more of them.

You see if people liked e85 they would be going out and buying the flex fuel vehicles that support the use of either fuel type, they are nothing new GM has been pumping them out in most models since 04-05. Once they have those engines they would be buying the e85 fuel. Most people I have talked to dont like the e85 because its not that much cheaper than the normal gas ( even though its production has been subsidized, the stations get a tax break for selling the shit and you dont pay as much in taxes per gallon as petrol) , and the mileage and power is down when you are burring it, so they dont use it and just buy normal gas.

Yes the free market at work here people and then, we are going to have the govt step in and try to steer the markets via legislation.

By law right now you are correct that gas can only be blended at up to 10% ethanol (this does not mean its 10% it could be 5% or 0%) and has been this way for quite some time. you can still get 100% petrol in many places but even then you never know it because there is nothing that says stations must disclose the blending percentages.

The EPA and the feds dont give a fuck if the new mandates burn up all our old engines. It would just get more of those evil old clunkers off the roads, with out having to bribe us to buy new cars with hand outs. It would accomplish the goals to get every one ot go out and buy a new car.

This is not a good thing. The govt has created this glut of supply in the ethanol and now is going to try and stick us with it weather we want it or not and to be dammed with the consequences, on engines that are not set up to run any ethanol blends let alone 15%. this is why its more likely to be 12% but still nothing more than the govt trying to steer the markets in the direction that furthers the agenda.

Not to mention the fact that ethanol eats fuel systems and heads and all kinds of other shit. Sure due to the octane you can make more power with it (racers have know this for 70 years) but you dont get near the amount of work out of an equal amount of petrol, so really with increased energy use to make ethanol, the lesser amount of work gotten outta the product compared to equal amount petrol production. It costs us all more, because ethanol is subsidized by you guessed it, US the taxpayers. You really want to pay more for you gas in the long run they support this shit.

Edit: This BP debockel is going to be used to push all kinds of energy bills and environmental bills through and prolly some nice new hefty taxes. They will try and get as much "mileage" as they can out of all the fuel oil in the gulf.

[BeirBrennerE30]

not off topic at all, it is actually very on topic. Ethanol is highly corrosive and it will cause premature wear around the rings and valves.

this!!! it eats non-silicone rubber and aluminum... so rubber fuel lines, intakes, aluminum heads etc. It sucks unless you have an engine designed for it. But if you design for it you can get mor epower.

[Restoman]

Ethanol makes me effin-lol

I can feel a noticable decrease in performance and mileage with ethanol fuels. I have no choice but to buy E-10 since I moved to the midwest. I bought an electric lawnmower because I am sick of the extra maintenance (long-term storage preparations and more frequent carb cleaning) required for small gas engines that run ethanol fuels.

I wish it would go away.

Look for 40 or 50 fuel for your smaller 2 strokes. I refuse to use electric trimmers. The fuel starts off with non-ethanol fuel and then mixes the 2 stroke oil in. Good stuff.