(Message from Athens) How do you cope with constant recession?

[a3ternus]

Hello to everyone reading this.This is a message from Athens,Greece in a way.
I didnt plan to write this but I ve always been wondering what was/is your way of coping with constant economic recession. :-|

As you may know,and I know that many of you already know judging from the
occupy wall street movement videos on youtube (Thanks for your support by the way.It sends a loud message.),we re currently in...how can I say it...deep deep shit.Not just our economy.Our way of life,our way of thinking and everything in between.Half of the people are depressed in one way or another.People aged 18-25 have a 50% unemployment rate.That means that half of them do not work.That goes down to 25% in general population regardless of age.Also mind that these are the official figures.Reality is harsher as we know.Apart from these facts bear in mind that,officially,the base salary is 510€ which means 400something on hand,excluding health care etc.Thats 670$ for 8 hours of work.Considering rent,gas and basic goods prices, that's totally ridiculous.

I m not gonna talk more in a general tone here.I dont have the knowledge.
I m sure even people who study economics do not have a clue sometimes.
We ended up in this situation cos of unbelievable political corruption.
But not only this.The biggest part of the population has learnt to live with it and endorse it with their vote.Thats 6 million people out of approximately 11 in total voting for the two main political parties in the last elections.
But enough with the big picture.

I m gonna describe my and my friends' situation.

One of us used to own a Toy store.Now its closed.He s currently employed for the last 11 months but has only received 3 salaries.Oh,for the graveyard shift.
He is married with a 2 year old son.He barely gets by.

Another one of us used to own a Furniture store.After months of a negative financial balance sheet,he decided to close it down.He s currently in search of a job.Nothing in particular.Any job will do.

I myself am a dentist.Just got my degree.I have a much better chance of getting a job in the UK rather than here in Athens.I m looking for a job in my field for the last 4 months or so.I ll end up working as an dentist aid I guess.
Keep in mind that thing about corruption.The majority of doctors,dentists and lawyers here declare the minimum they can in order to avoid taxes.

The fourth one is an engineer currently in almost the same situation as me.
He ll be probably looking for a job abroad if he s lucky to find one.

Anyway,the media here report that the worst has yet to come.
I know you ve been experiencing economic recession since 2008 in the states,so I guess I m not talking about anything new.
Just wanted to share and rant I suppose.
The worst of all is how easily people here get depressed.
And the worst of the worst is that there seems to be no end in sight.
Well,we live in a fucked up period in global history.Thats a given.

N.

[bmwstephen]

nothing wrong with taking advantage of tax loop holes. more fucked up that your politicians find every means to tax your already low wages.

one problem is your friends own business that serve to consume so of course they are going to bomb when people decide to tighten their belts immediately. it goes without saying that the majority of your population did not live within their means early on and expected to much for nothing.

the overall problem is that your people and its government thought wealth came from public services so you guys collectively ran it to the ground. the people that are rioters should've known better than to put all there life into a failing system. Based on current news report, the rioters still are stupid and haven't changed mindsets, they just want their public services and jobs restored rather than accepting the reality it was those very same factors that got you there in the first place.

don't get me wrong, our country is headed toward that path too but you do what you can. don't expect your elected official to help you out. he'll probably tell you he can but he is shooting for the sweet pension and generous public salary/benefits that are priority over that of the average citizen.

[gwb72tii]

you're country got into trouble by politicians promising things that are impossible to deliver, like retirement at 60, pensions etc
you're country basically lied to the EU over the deficit spending it was doing and now is in trouble financially. that plus what you said regarding not paying taxes.
the ECB mandate is for your country to basically be in recession for the next 5 years to get closer to balancing its budget. its not going to get any easier for a long while to find a job.
me, if i had a dentist's degree, i'd move to another country where i could find a job. I don't know about the UK, but in the USA dentists can earn $500k/year if you work hard.
move away from greece

[gwb72tii]

nothing wrong with avoiding taxes.

this is a big reason greece is so fucked up

there is lots wrong with not paying what is due, which is entorely different from fraudulently avoiding taxes as he mentioned

[bmwstephen]

this is a big reason greece is so fucked up

there is lots wrong with not paying what is due, which is entorely different from fraudulently avoiding taxes as he mentioned

I should rephrase.

there's nothing wrong with utilizing tax loop holes. the average citizens would do so if they have the ability. what's wrong is that some are illegally avoiding taxes but it trumps what was wrong to begin with and that is:that your country is to keen on taxing every foreseeable activity to begin with.

[a3ternus]

Agree with both of you but not 100%.

bmwstephen,most people here wanted the equivalent of the "american dream".
Now after spending all their money on houses,they cant afford them due to increasing taxes.
Same goes for their cars,even though thats another story.
Bottom line is taxes are killing the economy for both the evading
and the law abiding citizens.Easy to understand why though...

gwb72tii,I agree on everything except for the part where you talk about Greece lying to the EU about the deficit.
Its now clear that this is not what actually happened.
Lots of speculation,intel and counter intel on this topic.
Some even say that it was a financial scum in which even Goldman Sachs was a part of.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,676634,00.html

In plain words this article say a lot about the causes of the Greek crisis.

http://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/2011/10/11/wanna-know-why-greece-went-bankrupt/

Outrageous.

N.

PS.Apart from these I dont understand why we still need to buy arms from Germany?
TROIKA is endorsing these deals too.WTF is happening?!

[mrsleeve]

^

Yup but you guys are in a position where you need to lower your tax burdens to get things going, but that will not happen thanks to your political climate using taxes and entitlements to punish success and pander to the poor. Dont feel bad we have similar shit happening here in the US we are just further behind and have a better situation as the default world currency propping us up ..............................For now anyway

OP

Leave go abroad and make a life somewhere else, the same goes for your buddy with the engineering degree, there is so much opportunity abroad for engineers especially in the energy business from traditional (Mining, Petrol,) to the GREEN shit, and distribution of said resources.

[herbivor]

So a citizen of a government with unsustainable economic policies is asking citizens of another government with unsustainable economic policies how to cope in a recession? Well, we just printed 16 trillion dollars and gave it to the banks that caused the problem in the first place. Maybe your country should do the same thing...oh wait.

note to mod. May wanna move this to the P&R section.

[mrsleeve]

^

while I agree with that assessment, there are many citizens in this country that still believe in capitalism and personal responsibility

[Raxe]

We have a lot of oil.

[mrsleeve]

We have a lot of oil.

but our president wont let you sell it too us. your going to have to sell it China or drink it ;)

[nrubenstein]

Long term, the only way that Greece will survive is to go off the Euro and default. There is simply no way in hell that they can deflate the economy enough to solve your problems through taxes and contractionary policies without causing the country to come apart. The Euro was a stupid idea when they put it in place.

The probablem with the Euro vs. the dollar is pretty simple: 1). No political unity. 2). Lack of mobility - someone in Wisconsin can pretty easily move to Georgia and find work. Not a lot of, say, Greeks can move to Germany and find work. Open borders don't solve cultural and language barriers.

And really, the way that you personally survive in a nation in a state of perpetual depression is you leave. Get the hell out while you still can (and I sure hope you are keeping your money in Swiss bank accounts).

[nrubenstein]

but our president wont let you sell it too us. your going to have to sell it China or drink it ;)

Why should we use up our own oil when we can use up everyone else's first? I've never understood why we are so anxious to use our oil now.

[mrsleeve]

Why should we use up our own oil when we can use up everyone else's first? I've never understood why we are so anxious to use our oil now.

because tar sands oil is not green enough for our current regime. its to dirty and fucks up the environment too much. Remember we should all be driving volts that are powered by wind 99% of the time. :)

that said I am all for drilling, here as well as importing from more friendly sources (even though a 1/4 of our imports already come from the hat)

[gwb72tii]

Long term, the only way that Greece will survive is to go off the Euro and default. There is simply no way in hell that they can deflate the economy enough to solve your problems through taxes and contractionary policies without causing the country to come apart. The Euro was a stupid idea when they put it in place.

The probablem with the Euro vs. the dollar is pretty simple: 1). No political unity. 2). Lack of mobility - someone in Wisconsin can pretty easily move to Georgia and find work. Not a lot of, say, Greeks can move to Germany and find work. Open borders don't solve cultural and language barriers.

And really, the way that you personally survive in a nation in a state of perpetual depression is you leave. Get the hell out while you still can (and I sure hope you are keeping your money in Swiss bank accounts).

qft