Need some camera buying advice

[mrsleeve]

If any of my ramblings on the M4/3's gear out there has struck a chord at all, here is a KILLER deal even though I am more of an Olympus guy. Put the 25mm F1.4 Pan-a-Leica on this thing and get a decent general zoom and you will have some good results for a great price Really this sensor and the 25mm is a killer combo Couple that with the standard kit 14-42 and a 45-200 you should be able to find on ebay used for really good pricing and you would not too too far outta line with what your willing to spend if you can find a good deal on the 25mm as well

Panny GX1 body only for 200 bucks
http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-DMC-...=vglnkc3501-20

[e30austin]

I traded a complete E30 sport interior for a 40D with 18-55 kit lens, 50mm f1.4 and 75-300 telephoto, along with a big bag and a grip with two batteries. Never been happier.

If it were me, find a good, used body and buy one or two good lenses. YMMV, though.

[flyboyx]

If any of my ramblings on the M4/3's gear out there has struck a chord at all, here is a KILLER deal even though I am more of an Olympus guy. Put the 25mm F1.4 Pan-a-Leica on this thing and get a decent general zoom and you will have some good results for a great price Really this sensor and the 25mm is a killer combo Couple that with the standard kit 14-42 and a 45-200 you should be able to find on ebay used for really good pricing and you would not too too far outta line with what your willing to spend if you can find a good deal on the 25mm as well

Panny GX1 body only for 200 bucks
http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-DMC-...=vglnkc3501-20

that price for the body is indeed a steal. since you have been posting about these cameras, i have started doing some research.

my biggest problem i suppose is that in my opinion, lens focal length choices suck for the panasonic. i prefer to generally carry one slightly bigger lens around(all in one tele zoom sort of thing) with me rather than two smaller lenses. the only thing i can find that fits this camera is a 14-150mm. this lens has an equivalent of 28 to 300 which is pretty good. the problem is that the cheapest price i have seen for this lens is around 1000 bucks!!!!! i am a person willing to pay that kind of money for good equipment, but as pat mentions in his initial post, that lens and the body exceed his price range by 2x.

another problem for me personally, is that i like to shoot really wide lenses. the widest i can find for this camera system is the 14 (or 28mm in 35 equivalent) this is fine for your average neophyte i suppose. however if i can't get a good quality ultrawide (20mm equivalent), i wouldn't touch the system with a ten foot pole. that aspect alone comes pretty close to eliminating this system from being a product i would purchase.

one more thing to think about, i suppose the sensor in the camera is made with good current technology but that sensor is f'ing small! you can't make a comparison of your 13 year old canon slr to this. that is like saying that a '90 porsche is a superior car to a '58 edsel.

you need to compare the technology in the 4/3 camera to something built in the last year or two. i have not done research, but i am pretty sure the photos that come from a canon t3i with an equivalent lens will blow the panasonic out of the water.

[mrsleeve]

^

Well Oly has 9-18 (18-36mm) Pan has a 7-14 (14-28mm) Yes there's not a supper fast ultra wide but there are choices out there I think ther is 7mm F2 in the works from a 3rd party as well. We are talking about a new format that is still developing glass options, vs a Lens mount thats been around since the 80's. Of course your going to have more lens options out there for the EF line up

Next the OMD and the 2ed gen senors that are in this format will stack up with any crop senor rig from canon with a similar quality glass in front. Ummm last time I checked the 40d is NOT 13 year old tech 7 maybe, but not 13.

Yes there is a lack of fast zooms I fully admit that and its not a format that will work for everyone, your apparently one of those people, I am merely pointing to another avenue to check out and look into... Hes said 800 or less, well for 200 for a body (that when released it was the 5d of the m4/3 line up) a nice used 25mm F1.4 is going to be 250-300 so we have 500 spent and that leaves 300 for a good practical kit type zoom and other minor accessories. I mean really good glass for a T3I is going to cost more than his budget for a total out fit in the 1st place so this is kinda moot point.

Will the format stack up too a 5d III and L glass NO, but for most people that might want to use this every day and not feel obnoxious about it and still get outstanding results then it might be a good way too go, thats all I am saying especially for someone just getting going. The High ISO performance is also really great in the 2ed gen sensors, while not Full Frame 5d II good, its still very very good.... But then again even a 5d OG will bust the budget as well.

So in closing if you want a camera your more likely to take with you and USE your far more likely to take something smaller and more portable than a t3..... In fact ALL my m4/3 kit fits in a medium sized Crumpler Haven that drops into my DD back pack, and thats 3 lenses, body, filters, batteries, memory, Small tripod, and what not, for me portability and size were far more important for a every day travel rig, and I think that has been my point all along.

here is good comparo to other premium crop rigs from canon and Nikon the 7D and 300s.

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-cameras-side-by-side/%28appareil1%29/793|0/%28brand%29/Olympus/%28appareil2%29/619|0/%28brand2%29/Canon/%28appareil3%29/614|0/%28brand3%29/Nikon

[Threehz]

M4/3's seems great, but it also seems like it may need a little more time to grow before it becomes a good market for beginners. I definitely plan on grabbing an OMD in a couple years when the price drops.

BTW. That 40D <--> OMD image comparison is pretty unfair in every way.

[mrsleeve]

Settings were nearly Identical and the conditions were identical. Yes one has a little more resolution and yet is the smaller of the 2 senors. with as close to a similar focal length in 35mm equivalent with mid grade glass for both formats. Its about as close as I could show with what I have on my work comp and up loaded. When for what for the OP wants to spend he could get a nice used 40d maybe a 50d set up with a couple of mid grade lenses, or a t3i with and that shitty efs glass. Or a m4/3 and some mid grade glass to go with it and a shitty kit zoom...

A t3i will not fair any better than my 40d did IQ on these little 1/2 frame 2ed gen sensors is great even in lower light. I wish I had some side by sides of lower light images. I dont think the OP can swing a FF 5d II so trying to make the link that the m4/3 format is inferior to a more traditional sized crop sensor DSLR is a bit of reach. Many people that have both a 5d II and OMD rave about how close they are in IQ

good thread form a year ago on this debate

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1183315

[flyboyx]

^

Well Oly has 9-18 (18-36mm) Pan has a 7-14 (14-28mm) Yes there's not a supper fast ultra wide but there are choices out there I think ther is 7mm F2 in the works from a 3rd party as well. We are talking about a new format that is still developing glass options, vs a Lens mount thats been around since the 80's. Of course your going to have more lens options out there for the EF line up

Next the OMD and the 2ed gen senors that are in this format will stack up with any crop senor rig from canon with a similar quality glass in front. Ummm last time I checked the 40d is NOT 13 year old tech 7 maybe, but not 13.

Yes there is a lack of fast zooms I fully admit that and its not a format that will work for everyone, your apparently one of those people, I am merely pointing to another avenue to check out and look into... Hes said 800 or less, well for 200 for a body (that when released it was the 5d of the m4/3 line up) a nice used 25mm F1.4 is going to be 250-300 so we have 500 spent and that leaves 300 for a good practical kit type zoom and other minor accessories. I mean really good glass for a T3I is going to cost more than his budget for a total out fit in the 1st place so this is kinda moot point.

Will the format stack up too a 5d III and L glass NO, but for most people that might want to use this every day and not feel obnoxious about it and still get outstanding results then it might be a good way too go, thats all I am saying especially for someone just getting going. The High ISO performance is also really great in the 2ed gen sensors, while not Full Frame 5d II good, its still very very good.... But then again even a 5d OG will bust the budget as well.

So in closing if you want a camera your more likely to take with you and USE your far more likely to take something smaller and more portable than a t3..... In fact ALL my m4/3 kit fits in a medium sized Crumpler Haven that drops into my DD back pack, and thats 3 lenses, body, filters, batteries, memory, Small tripod, and what not, for me portability and size were far more important for a every day travel rig, and I think that has been my point all along.

here is good comparo to other premium crop rigs from canon and Nikon the 7D and 300s.
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cam...rand3%29/Nikon

huh....interesting points. i couldn't find that wide zoom anywhere. i looked around on amazon and i see what you are talking about. the lumix 7-14mm is around a thousand bucks. the 14-140 can be had for about 700. combined with the body, i would be looking at about 2k for a small system. not for the faint of heart.

anyway. i carry a canon g10 with me at all times when i am on the road. for that purpose i need something small. i purchased it when it first came on the market and there were no mini interchangeable lens cameras at that time. that was like 5 years ago and for a small camera, it was the best available. generally, i like the camera and think it is of good quality, but it has so many limitations that i really want to replace it with something that better suits my style of photography.

it has been a few years, but i looked at these cameras when they first came out. i remember thinking as i was handing it back to the salesman that they were total crap.

i certainly wouldn't entertain this type of camera for serious photography, but for when i am out on a trip, i want so badly for something like this to suit my needs. for 2000.00 to mostly complete a system, i don't think i could justify it as a travel backup.



one other issue that nags the back of my head......back when i was in college, there were a slew of manufacturers making interchangeable lens cameras. most of those manufacturers have come and gone, some have come back again. canon and nikon are still here and will still be here tomorrow. when i buy a system(canon in my case) it sure is nice that down the road you know that you can just upgrade your body and still continue to use all the lenses and flash that you purchased previously. if, back in my day, you purchased a system from any manufacturer other than those two, you are completely sol if you want to upgrade the body without spending a lot of money on a new system. this is what worries me about investing in the panasonic or olympus.

i know that canon has come out with a model that is supposed to compete with these. i know that the first(and i believe present) version was a complete piece of crap with only 2 or 3 lens choices. perhaps the next model will be a big improvement?

[Threehz]

I can promise you my T3i with the kit lens would have easily delivered IQ on par with your M4/3 in that comparison shot you did.

Some of that horrible T3i + EFS IQ:

[Turf1600]

Very interesting conversation. However, I've decided to stay away from mirrorless. I went and played around with virtually every camera that I've been considering yesterday and much to my surprise liked the Canon t3i the most. I had my mind made up on the Nikon D3200 or 5100 but really felt the most comfortable with the Canon. I think ultimately it's going to come down to which I get the best deal on - but I have my sights set on the t3i at this point. I also really like the versatility of the lenses that Brian suggested and will likely go that route.

[mrsleeve]

So Olympus has not been around for 30+ years making high quality photo gear then???

the oly 9-18 is can be had for 600 new from amazon and have seen them sold gently used for 400........ I have also seen deals on the EPM-2 (which has the same sensor as the OMD) kit with 14-42II (which is not that bad for a kit lens) for 450 brand new. Yes to put a full kit together you will be in the 1500-2k mark but you dont have to do it all at one time.....

Yes I have 2k+ in my OMD system, and it works well for what I use it for, and really am considering selling off my canon gear because I never get to use it anyway

Another good read on the format for ya

http://www.smallcamerabigpicture.com/how-to-overcome-fears-using-micro-43rds-cameras-in-a-professional-environment/

Threehz

browse though here and tell me the t3i will blow the M4/3 outta the water
http://www.flickr.com/groups/om-d_user/

[Nsquared97]

Got this not too long ago and couldn't be happier:
http://www.adorama.com/ICA60DR.html

[flyboyx]

So Olympus has not been around for 30+ years making high quality photo gear then???

the oly 9-18 is can be had for 600 new from amazon and have seen them sold gently used for 400........ I have also seen deals on the EPM-2 (which has the same sensor as the OMD) kit with 14-42II (which is not that bad for a kit lens) for 450 brand new. Yes to put a full kit together you will be in the 1500-2k mark but you dont have to do it all at one time.....

Yes I have 2k+ in my OMD system, and it works well for what I use it for, and really am considering selling off my canon gear because I never get to use it anyway

Another good read on the format for ya

http://www.smallcamerabigpicture.com/how-to-overcome-fears-using-micro-43rds-cameras-in-a-professional-environment/

Threehz

browse though here and tell me the t3i will blow the M4/3 outta the water
http://www.flickr.com/groups/om-d_user/

hey man, i know you love your camera system. don't be offended. 20 years ago olympus made om mount cameras and lenses. about the time i was hired to work in the camera store in college they stopped making them and only produced shitty point and shoots that mostly broke when you breathed on them. yes, they do make interchangeable lens cameras again today. i know this. compatibility? not so much.

i know olympus made a few good lenses back in the day even if they could be fit onto a new camera, who would want to? with canon and nikon, it is a different story. canon changed their lens mount in the late 80's but since then everything autofocus fits todays cameras. ttl flashes are the same from way back too. i bet it has been well over 10 years since canon has even put out a new model bounce flash because those from back in the day are still pretty awesome by today's standards.

i still have a canon 300mm f2.8 that i purchased used 20 years ago. it is fing amazing to me that i can still use this lens on my autofocus canon camera. it doesn't focus nearly as fast as the new one and the motor inside is noisy, but it works just fine. i certainly don't shoot enough anymore to justify the cost of a lens like that today. however since i have it, i use it once or twice a year. had i chosen minolta, olympus, pentax, or any other brand except nikon, that lens would be a paperweight to me. i would be selling it on ebay as nostalgia.

i generally buy quality products and keep them for a long time. it pisses me off when i buy something that is obsolete before i am done with it. (f**K you sony and your zune!) you even mention that one of those 4/3 manufacturers are planning to change the mount interface on the camera. i am sure it will be for the better of the system. however, 5 years from now, it will really suck for those of you that bought that system and can't use the lenses on a current camera. if you buy cheap shitty neophyte lense, it doesn't matter much. they are throw away anyhow. back to the example of the 300mm f2.8. i bet that lens would cost over 4 grand today. that would be an expensive paper weight. all i am saying is that is something to think about when you make your purchase.




thank you for posting the links. i will read through them. looks like good info.

[mrsleeve]

hey I shoot canon as well when I am home and have it handy. I just think that with the current gen of mirriorless M4/3 in particular the sonys just dont have the glass choices that even the m4/3 offers, that there is really little reason to jump into a full on SLR for the average person just getting into the hobby and has no ties to a legacy glass collection with a modern lens mount.

[Turf1600]

Alright. I've landed on a camera. I'm going with the Nikon d3200. I think it's the best value in a newer dslr. Now. What accessories do I need? There are bundles out there with uv filters, snap on macro lenses, remotes, cleaning kits, etc. Will I use all of this stuff or are they hiking up the bundle price with cheap "pieces"?

[mrsleeve]

NO bundles

You will need a good quality CPL, (circular polarizer) a decent tripod and remote shutter release to get started and a bag to put it all in, for most landscapeing and Wild life kinda stuff..