Auto Tech looking to advance.. with flatrate questions

[Kozworth]

Hello fellows,

Just a brief background of me. I am a 22 year old who just graduated in may with an associates in automotive technology. I dont want to sound cocky, but I was the kid in the class who gave full attention and got A's and B's in my auto classes, along I have about 2 years experience with e30s. Before this, I did some tinkering with vws such as mild diag, lowering, etc. Id have to say my skill level definately took off when I had gotten my first e30.. within the first few months I had a lot of misfire diag/timing belt/gas tank replaced etc. I had worked at a quick lube for 1.5 years.

Currently, I am working 35 hours a week at a dealership doing the basic c tech stuff (tires, rotates, misc jobs, pdi's). I am also working for an independent shop, of which is a very knowledgeable guy about 15-20 hours a week. At the independent shop, I do anything that gets assigned for me. First day, I did a rack on a pt cruiser, multiple struts/brakes, multiple ac services/compressors, clutch on a honda, timing belt on an 01 eclipse, etc etc. Its really good experience. I make hourly both places, but I make about 1.50$ more an hour at the indie shop.

Here are my concerns right now. To start off, I am making the same, if not less, money now then when I worked the quick lube before graduation. I am looking to advance from the usual oil change nonsense to an entry tech. I am very eager to try a job, but I put accuracy before speed, so I am not really the fastest, but some things I can get done before time (brakes, struts, the basics). Both jobs are paying me hardly enough to live on (pay rent, gas, food, tools) but I get by.

I am wondering whethor working for an independent shop (the only guy there owns it) and trying to stay hourly or if I should try to jump into flat rate. I have read multiple threads and websites on flatrate. The reason why I am considering getting into a dealership more as a tech would be the benefits, more "steady" work load (as in the dealership is less likely to go under rather then a one man shop), and a higher increased flat rate wage. I asked a tech at the dealer I am at, and he said that he started at 16-18$ an hour. The issue with the independent shop is, I know that I am not perficient enough to require an hourly wage as that (I have only been graduated for a few months, no ase, and every day is a learning experience). So, even with a slower flat rate pace, in the end I feel that a higher flat rate pay would probably be in my favor then a low hourly pay.

Just some food for thought, if anyone can also chime in on typical b tech entry flatrate salaries, that could really help me narrow down my options.

Its hard to really see what position and pay I should be looking for, because I am still fresh from school yet I do have some mechanical experience. My box is also relatively empty, but have been filling it in a steady and productive pace. Looking foward to your answers, and sorry for the novel.. I just wanted to be as in depth as possible.

Adam

[KillaCams]

Stay hourly while youre learning, go flat rate when you know you can do 200% or better on the times. Example, if a honda timing belt is paying 10 hours your goal for flat rate is 5 hours to be done. Obviously you wont always hit that, but if you have the mind set of breaking even on the time youll never make money being flat rate.

I work flat rate currently in an auto collision shop, and trust me when youre just starting out and not as fast as you need to be youre better off hourly.

[campbellj25]

Ive been with bmw dealers for 12 years on flat rate. I was thrown to the sharks on flat rate after 1 month of a gauranteed 40hrs a week. That sucked bad and it took me a while to start breaking even. Like KillaCams said, until you are proficient enough to finish any job in half the time it pays, stay on salary that way you can take your time to learn and get the job done right. You dont have to worry about finishing one and moving onto the next. Plus if it gets slow your still getting paid. On flat rate, if your not turning a wrench your not making money.

As far as independant vs dealership goes, ppl are different and either prefer one or the other. I started in dealers with 50+ techs and tons of work. I tried an indie shop a couple years ago in between bmw dealers and it only lasted a few months. I just enjoy the benefits of the dealer like working in an air conditioned shop and having a lenient schedule if I need to leave for some reason its no big deal.

The good thing about an indie shop is not having to do warranty work. We do about 70% warranty where I work so it takes alot more to make a paycheck. From what I have seen though, down here the entry level guys are usually somewhere between 16-20bucks an hour.

[campbellj25]

Oops double post

[Kozworth]

I really like the vibes of an independent shop. Its pretty laid back, get what you need to do, and you clock out. The issue is the dealership I work for most likely will not hire me hourly. I like working on something different sometimes, but for the most part I would really like to settle into a german brand and work specifically on a manufacturer or two (rather then domestics, euro, and jap in the indie shop. Its really hard to begin to advance as is, let alone seeing all the spectrums).

I understand how flat rate is, but I was curious that if I was thrown into it as a b tech wouldn't I most likely just get a lot of the oil change/rotate/tires/brakes/susp/alignment work? Or is that too much "cake work"?

I also like the indie shop because its more or less paid apprenticeship. I can borrow any tools, get help when needed, and more or less just learn the tricks beyond getting the job done. Its a good experience, but I am just afraid its a short lived experience and not much room for advancement. Plus, I would much rather know that my job has a steady and strong future, along with being able to have paid vacation/401k/other benefits.

[campbellj25]

Its hard to say. It really depends on the dealer. The one Im at now has the entry level guys pretty much only doing pdi's, oil changes, brakes tires and alignments. Problem is they have been entry level for a couple years now and not learning anything. Thats the only work they know how to do. Give them an evaporator and they are tied up all week.

The other dealers I have been to it was completely opposite. They did everything and got beat up with diagnosis all the time. That being said, they all learned, got raises over the years and made it to master level techs. I guess it depends how they are where you work as to what they will have you doing.

When I started, not too long afterward the e65 7 series came out. I was new and that's all I got. That car made me reconsider my career many many times. Now they are my gravy money making cars.

[Andy.B]

I worked as a lube tech while getting my associates in auto tech, then worked at a land rover dealership for 4 plus years. I was technically flat rate, BUT, as long as you were a good employee and worked hard, they would pay you hourly (if it was slow, or you got absolutely beat up on diagnosing some oddball problem, for example). It was a good system, where good techs were rewarded, so they stayed around.

I learned a lot at land rover. I learned how to be a tech, basically. I then moved on to a small used car dealership for a couple years, where I was the lead tech. After moving from a c tech to an a tech at land rover, I was able to handle a shop were I had to be able to handle whatever came in the door that day.

Eventually I got sick of physically busting my ass, and decided to go back to college, and got a degree in information technology. I still get to do plenty of hands on work, but now I don't get filthy, and the pay is better.

From my experience, I would recommend starting in a dealership that invests in their techs. By that I mean they try to make their c techs into a techs, by sending you to manufacturer training, giving you time to read and learn training materials, and give you time to shadow the a techs here and there, and throwing you a challenge every once in a while. Find a shop that wants you to learn, not just do the crap work. But with that being said, expect to spend some time don't crap work. Get good at it, do it fast, efficient, and accurately, and people will notice.
On the other hand, too many independent shops I see have a 'get it done' mentality, were you might learn to be fast, but not to be a good tech. The techs who start there often can't handle the head scratchers, and often have a large amount of comebacks.

Tldr: find the shop where you can continue to learn as much as possible. Focus on being a good, accurate tech who doesn't have comebacks or mistakes.


As one of my automotive teachers told the class, 'it will take you years just to learn how much you don't know'.

[Kozworth]

I appreciate the input so far. At the independent shop, I am learning not only how things are diagd but a lot of wrenching techniques (basically how to think out of the box hen the norm doesn't work). It's just I do not feel the pay will go up much since its a single guy.

As for the dealer, I talked to my service manager and he seems keen on gettin me knowledgeable on the manufacturer in a few months. My experience is it takes a long time for things to get into action here. However, the techs get paid schooling ad it seems that they work on pretty much everything, not the same things dy in and out.

I guess the deal breaker is if the dealer can give me some incentive besides flat rate

[Ratbastage]

I own a euro shop.

Now, as a starting tech there are three things you need to grasp.

1) This is not easy.
2) How to diagnose a car and be ready to stand behind that.
3) Continual self training.

As far as pay I'd look at a indy and ask for a living salary with a production bonus hung on it. I pay based on 40 a week plus a 2 buck a billable hour bonus for anything past 40 billable turned in. I also toss a few bucks out here and there just because. I've also been known to hand someone a case of good beer, a hundred for doing something that impressed me or just because.

I also will tell someone to pack their shit and hit the bricks for having a attitude problem. I explain to my techs very carefully there is room for one asshole in this place and in this case, that assholes name is on the charter.

Learn, be careful, work smart and hard and things will fall into place for you.

[Kozworth]

Ratbastage, sounds like a good deal.

I am willing to put forth my best foot, and currently do. My week usually consists of work from 8am to 5/6pm mon thru sat, go home, work on my moms e34/friends 2002 or e21/my turbo project until 10pm or so, repeat.

I am really working on diagnosis, unfortunately I have worked a few jobs where the diag was wrong and had to redo jobs (I basically get told this needs x part so install it). On my own, I am always on here or watching youtube diag videos. I drive a 600$ e36 that I baught non running so I know the importance of getting a car diag'ed correctly and quickly on such a daily.

I would like to be in an indie shop, I am just afraid that since the industry is hard and a lot of shops take a beating that it might be hard to make a decent living.