2002-2006 Range Rover

[Kevinl]

Are these BMW built Range rover's as badly built and unreliable as all the others or are they actually pretty good?

I have always liked them and it seems like you can pick one up between 10-15,000

[Andy.B]

I was a Land Rover technician for 4+ years.

Don't do it! Maintenance nightmares. I'll share more later, when I have time.

[E30_Pare]

donnnnt do et! If you wanted a range rover get a a classic at least. p38 and newer always will give you headaches not saying the classic wont either. Most common would be the air suspension. Compressors typically, but the list goes on.

[einhander]

Defo go for the classic if you want one. 95 Classic.

[Andy.B]

The 03-05 Range Rovers had a BMW engine. You would think that would make it more reliable! It doesn't. Land Rover really Land Rover'd that whole vehicle.

The engine bay seems to get too hot, as every not metal piece gets brittle and cracks. The secondary electric water pump breaks. The vacuum fittings on the manifold break off. Hoses split or turn to mush. The coolant bottles split. The value pan gasket blows out. The rear coolant manifold that connects the two cylinder heads leaks.

Attempting to repair the valley pan gasket or rear manifold results in every piece between you and it breaking, no matter how gentle you are, how many virgins you sacrifice, or how many times you pray to whatever god you think can help you.

The front driveshaft originally had a splined connection into the front diff instead of a joint or guibo. The splines would shear, and the lack of a locking center diff meant the car was immobile. They eventually put out a recall to update the diff flange and driveshaft to incorporate a u joint. The proper procedure calls for splitting the diff to replace the crush sleeve and output flange to properly reset pinion lash. I never took a shortcut, but I am quite certain more than a handful of techs just replaced the flange with the diff in situ, and crossed their fingers that the lash would be ok.

The rear suspension 'ball joint' bushings fail. Often. And squeak like hell when they do. And they are a royal pita to change, even with the proper tools.

The catalytic converter welds would split, necessitating a replacement.

The Torque plate would shear off, making the truck immobile (if you were lucky), or catch, pushing the torque converter out of alignment, destroying the transmission.

Water cooled alternator is insanely expensive.

Flimsy radiator isn't cheap either

Nor are the hid headlight bulbs.

And if anything in the self leveling headlights breaks? Yikes. Individual parts aren't available. You have the replace the entire assembly, which isn't cheap either.

As others said, the air ride system is finicky. The power adjustable steering columns squeak, then the break. And you will probably be footing the bill for an entire column. And you aren't doing it yourself, because every powered component has a memory module that needs to be programmed and synchronized on install with the dealer computer system.

The biggest problem with servicing these nightmares was that LR bought all of the components from other manufacturers (which I know is common). However, LR's r&d is tiny, and they never seemed to actually LEARN anything about what they were buying, or test things before they rolled them out. Half of the cars diagnostic procedures followed 3 steps:
A - Check power, ground, and communication on the can bus's
B - update module firmware
C - replace/reprogram module.

And that sounds like lazy tech work, but thats all you really had to work with.

And you had to hope that fixed it, because if it didn't, it was a nightmare. The parts department had to keep 'known good' parts on hand, ready to test, because half the time if you swapped out an inop module for a new module you would have a new set of problems, but a slightly older module (with slightly older firmware) would work fine.

They would roll out module updates that you couldn't actually install, because that would cause a compatability issue with another module. We had vehicles immobile after installing one update, while being forced to wait for another update. Sometimes that took months.

And those destroyed transmissions? They weren't all the same, and weren't all compatible. Oh, they had the same part numbers. They bolted right in. They would even flash ok. But only some worked. The record for one vehicle while I was there was 4 different transmission before one would play nice with the rest of the system.

That vehicle was probably the second worst Land Rover ever made (Freelander being the champion piece of garbage). LP38 Range Rovers have problems, but are relatively straightforward and manageable as long as you keep up on maintenance, and can stomach the high parts costs. The Jag engine'd Range Rovers got better and better every year. RR Classics are awesome, if not a little fragile with age. But the L322's are just complete and utter parts bin garbage.

[Kevinl]

so it sounds like other than the engine bmw had very little to do with the design it was the broke rover groups last hurrah

[ThatOneEuroE30]

The 03-05 Range Rovers had a BMW engine. You would think that would make it more reliable! It doesn't. Land Rover really Land Rover'd that whole vehicle.

The engine bay seems to get too hot, as every not metal piece gets brittle and cracks. The secondary electric water pump breaks. The vacuum fittings on the manifold break off. Hoses split or turn to mush. The coolant bottles split. The value pan gasket blows out. The rear coolant manifold that connects the two cylinder heads leaks.

Attempting to repair the valley pan gasket or rear manifold results in every piece between you and it breaking, no matter how gentle you are, how many virgins you sacrifice, or how many times you pray to whatever god you think can help you.

The front driveshaft originally had a splined connection into the front diff instead of a joint or guibo. The splines would shear, and the lack of a locking center diff meant the car was immobile. They eventually put out a recall to update the diff flange and driveshaft to incorporate a u joint. The proper procedure calls for splitting the diff to replace the crush sleeve and output flange to properly reset pinion lash. I never took a shortcut, but I am quite certain more than a handful of techs just replaced the flange with the diff in situ, and crossed their fingers that the lash would be ok.

The rear suspension 'ball joint' bushings fail. Often. And squeak like hell when they do. And they are a royal pita to change, even with the proper tools.

The catalytic converter welds would split, necessitating a replacement.

The Torque plate would shear off, making the truck immobile (if you were lucky), or catch, pushing the torque converter out of alignment, destroying the transmission.

Water cooled alternator is insanely expensive.

Flimsy radiator isn't cheap either

Nor are the hid headlight bulbs.

And if anything in the self leveling headlights breaks? Yikes. Individual parts aren't available. You have the replace the entire assembly, which isn't cheap either.

As others said, the air ride system is finicky. The power adjustable steering columns squeak, then the break. And you will probably be footing the bill for an entire column. And you aren't doing it yourself, because every powered component has a memory module that needs to be programmed and synchronized on install with the dealer computer system.

The biggest problem with servicing these nightmares was that LR bought all of the components from other manufacturers (which I know is common). However, LR's r&d is tiny, and they never seemed to actually LEARN anything about what they were buying, or test things before they rolled them out. Half of the cars diagnostic procedures followed 3 steps:
A - Check power, ground, and communication on the can bus's
B - update module firmware
C - replace/reprogram module.

And that sounds like lazy tech work, but thats all you really had to work with.

And you had to hope that fixed it, because if it didn't, it was a nightmare. The parts department had to keep 'known good' parts on hand, ready to test, because half the time if you swapped out an inop module for a new module you would have a new set of problems, but a slightly older module (with slightly older firmware) would work fine.

They would roll out module updates that you couldn't actually install, because that would cause a compatability issue with another module. We had vehicles immobile after installing one update, while being forced to wait for another update. Sometimes that took months.

And those destroyed transmissions? They weren't all the same, and weren't all compatible. Oh, they had the same part numbers. They bolted right in. They would even flash ok. But only some worked. The record for one vehicle while I was there was 4 different transmission before one would play nice with the rest of the system.

That vehicle was probably the second worst Land Rover ever made (Freelander being the champion piece of garbage). LP38 Range Rovers have problems, but are relatively straightforward and manageable as long as you keep up on maintenance, and can stomach the high parts costs. The Jag engine'd Range Rovers got better and better every year. RR Classics are awesome, if not a little fragile with age. But the L322's are just complete and utter parts bin garbage.

So this must be why the only people you see driving them are the people with stupid deep pockets

[einhander]

So this must be why the only people you see driving them are the people with stupid deep pockets

Their cars probably don't break down much as they really only use them to go to the shops and drop the kids off at school.

[ThatOneEuroE30]

Their cars probably don't break down much as they really only use them to go to the shops and drop the kids off at school.

I guess and they probably trade them off for a newer model before they get up in miles and have to deal with the wear and tear items.

[Andy.B]

Their cars probably don't break down much as they really only use them to go to the shops and drop the kids off at school.

Just to be safe, Land Rover delivered new vehicles off the truck pre broken.

My favorite was a RR with the AC lines straight up disconnected. Just hanging out in the engine compartment. That is a special kind of QC. That means the guy who was supposed to bolt them in didn't, anybody else bolting things into the engine compartment didn't bother to address it, and the person/machine that charged the AC system didn't verify that it actually charged.

We got brand new trucks with completely fubar'd alignments. Seriously, I did so many alignments on RR's, RR Sports, and LR3/4's with less than 20 miles. If you didn't the tires would camber/toe wear to chords in about 10k miles.



I left Land Rover in 2011, and the automotive field entirely in 2012. I need to stop remembering all these repressed memories...

[BobombETA]

Just to be safe, Land Rover delivered new vehicles off the truck pre broken.

My favorite was a RR with the AC lines straight up disconnected. Just hanging out in the engine compartment. That is a special kind of QC. That means the guy who was supposed to bolt them in didn't, anybody else bolting things into the engine compartment didn't bother to address it, and the person/machine that charged the AC system didn't verify that it actually charged.

We got brand new trucks with completely fubar'd alignments. Seriously, I did so many alignments on RR's, RR Sports, and LR3/4's with less than 20 miles. If you didn't the tires would camber/toe wear to chords in about 10k miles.



I left Land Rover in 2011, and the automotive field entirely in 2012. I need to stop remembering all these repressed memories...

I need to show this thread to a British acquaintance who has a habit of lambasting American cars.

[slammin.e28]

L322 will be the next one I buy.

That said, Classics are the beeze knees, especially when you swap out the RV8 for sometime more reliable. Air suspension isn't terrible. All the same shit goes out and there are work arounds.

SRSLY though, they're not as bad as people say. I actually am attracted to the stigma they have, keeps them cheap for me, so DON'T DO IT. THEY ARE TERRIBLE!!!!! RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE.

[QUKBMER]

The 03-05 Range Rovers had a BMW engine. You would think that would make it more reliable! It doesn't. Land Rover really Land Rover'd that whole vehicle.

The engine bay seems to get too hot, as every not metal piece gets brittle and cracks. The secondary electric water pump breaks. The vacuum fittings on the manifold break off. Hoses split or turn to mush. The coolant bottles split. The value pan gasket blows out. The rear coolant manifold that connects the two cylinder heads leaks.

Attempting to repair the valley pan gasket or rear manifold results in every piece between you and it breaking, no matter how gentle you are, how many virgins you sacrifice, or how many times you pray to whatever god you think can help you.

The front driveshaft originally had a splined connection into the front diff instead of a joint or guibo. The splines would shear, and the lack of a locking center diff meant the car was immobile. They eventually put out a recall to update the diff flange and driveshaft to incorporate a u joint. The proper procedure calls for splitting the diff to replace the crush sleeve and output flange to properly reset pinion lash. I never took a shortcut, but I am quite certain more than a handful of techs just replaced the flange with the diff in situ, and crossed their fingers that the lash would be ok.

The rear suspension 'ball joint' bushings fail. Often. And squeak like hell when they do. And they are a royal pita to change, even with the proper tools.

The catalytic converter welds would split, necessitating a replacement.

The Torque plate would shear off, making the truck immobile (if you were lucky), or catch, pushing the torque converter out of alignment, destroying the transmission.

Water cooled alternator is insanely expensive.

Flimsy radiator isn't cheap either

Nor are the hid headlight bulbs.

And if anything in the self leveling headlights breaks? Yikes. Individual parts aren't available. You have the replace the entire assembly, which isn't cheap either.

As others said, the air ride system is finicky. The power adjustable steering columns squeak, then the break. And you will probably be footing the bill for an entire column. And you aren't doing it yourself, because every powered component has a memory module that needs to be programmed and synchronized on install with the dealer computer system.

The biggest problem with servicing these nightmares was that LR bought all of the components from other manufacturers (which I know is common). However, LR's r&d is tiny, and they never seemed to actually LEARN anything about what they were buying, or test things before they rolled them out. Half of the cars diagnostic procedures followed 3 steps:
A - Check power, ground, and communication on the can bus's
B - update module firmware
C - replace/reprogram module.

And that sounds like lazy tech work, but thats all you really had to work with.

And you had to hope that fixed it, because if it didn't, it was a nightmare. The parts department had to keep 'known good' parts on hand, ready to test, because half the time if you swapped out an inop module for a new module you would have a new set of problems, but a slightly older module (with slightly older firmware) would work fine.

They would roll out module updates that you couldn't actually install, because that would cause a compatability issue with another module. We had vehicles immobile after installing one update, while being forced to wait for another update. Sometimes that took months.

And those destroyed transmissions? They weren't all the same, and weren't all compatible. Oh, they had the same part numbers. They bolted right in. They would even flash ok. But only some worked. The record for one vehicle while I was there was 4 different transmission before one would play nice with the rest of the system.

That vehicle was probably the second worst Land Rover ever made (Freelander being the champion piece of garbage). LP38 Range Rovers have problems, but are relatively straightforward and manageable as long as you keep up on maintenance, and can stomach the high parts costs. The Jag engine'd Range Rovers got better and better every year. RR Classics are awesome, if not a little fragile with age. But the L322's are just complete and utter parts bin garbage.

This ^^^^ We service European vehicles only and i can tell you this is THE worst BMW/Range Rover ever built hands down.I like and would buy a 2002 and older Range/Disco II and or a 2007 and up Range with out thinking twice about it.

[James]

L322's are really not too bad to live with, obviously don't expect to running costs equal to a 325e but they are pretty rock solid, if you have experience with modern bmw stuff its practically all bmw under the skin. Nothing is going to match its ability whatever the cost.

I'd skip p38's they were pretty shit when they were new and salvation won't be found in a pile of new parts.

A classic is a good thing even with the rv8 if you're willing to do your own work, don't mind the mpg and have a few spare weekends to sort it out. The only thing that is going to let you down will be HG failure, which is almost a certainty, but realistically it isn't a bad or expensive job and can be easily done in a weekend. If you're going with a classic I'd try find either a really nice but cheap broken one and sort it out or something that has been enthusiast owned. Sadly most of these classics are getting pretty hacked up now so you might struggle to find a good one.

I have a 95 disco which is my primary DD and it has been pretty much faultless over the past 2 years besides a few bushings and a front axle reseal, all relatively easy jobs. But I did put a freshly rebuild engine in shortly after I bought it (bought as a none runner) Still I think I have less than 4g all said and done.