Lies, deception, and sticking it to the man.

[Kip]

First off, if you doubt the theories, EITHER official or otherwise, good for you. Either way seems a little improbable. Some of you have engineering backgrounds. Wouldn't you say that things don't quite add up? And those of you who think that the Bush-Cheney cabal cooked this up? C'mon. Really. WTF?. (Holmes, I pity you) This is a good topic for subtle racism (as in neocon = Jew) and for the tinfoil hats to have a field day.

I just try to keep an open mind. I doubt we will ever know all the details about what really happened. (for you nuts, dig into PROMIS software)

As I have posted in other threads, IF there are people smart enough to pull this off, then they deserve to be in power. (Not even going to address Bilderberg, Illuminati, Masons, etc.) Face it, how many people do you know who can name the contestants on Survivor or American Idol, but not the Prime Minister of England or the Speaker of the House. Bread and Circuses. There is so much information available these days, it makes it easy for one to not think, just react.

This is coming from someone who has deployed in the GWOT, sees some interesting material, and considers himself to be a conservative. I only wish there were Liberals these days. The Left is influenced by a great number of policies that are not classically Liberal, but socialist/communist. That gets us to the point where we have to redefine the political spectrum, with fascism to the left of communism.

Barbara Olson, wife of the US Solicitor General, was a good friend of my mom. She died 9/11 on the plane that hit the Pentagon.

Holmes, read some John Locke, for you have broken the social contract, just by being you.

[Erick]

The problem is that discussion has been beat to death countless times.

Everyone has their opinion on the matter. I personally believe that the Bush administration had something to do with it. And in a couple of decades we'll know all that there is to know about this, just as files were released about JFK throughout the years, or any major investigation.

[asubimmer]

really why would the bush admin have something to do w/ something like this?!?! I would love to hear what you think say about it.

[Kip]

I personally believe that the Bush administration had something to do with it. And in a couple of decades we'll know all that there is to know about this, just as files were released about JFK throughout the years, or any major investigation.

Umm...Yeah, what files on JKF? Oh, right Oliver Stone's version.

As for Administration, do you have any idea of the true number of Departments and civil service people who work for the gov't? These folks are not elected, and wield incredible amounts of power.

The people get the government they deserve.

[AdironRider]

Umm...Yeah, what files on JKF? Oh, right Oliver Stone's version.

As for Administration, do you have any idea of the true number of Departments and civil service people who work for the gov't? These folks are not elected, and wield incredible amounts of power.

The people get the government they deserve.

Who are you talking about? What power is this you speak of? What can they personally do to affect my life? Id like to know.

[Ryan Stewart]

Kip, since I havent seen the video in a while and refuse to watch it again please state something that doesnt add up and we can debunk it.

My fav was the theory of bombs blowing up all the surrounding buildings around WTC1 and WTC2 to cover up a conspiracy held in WTC5. The truth is all those buildings collapsed too because the impact of 100 million tons of debris falling into the cavity under all of them compromised their "foundations." I say, "foundations" because they were not built on slabs, but had a parking garage, mall, subway station, and 2 subbasements below them with just a skeletal support structure.

[Beej '86 325es]

You know that's made up right? That's been roaming the internet for years, don't remember where it came from but it's definately not real. I've no doubt that blue states do generally have a higher IQ than red states. Rural areas generally have a lower IQ than metropolitan areas, most blue states are on the densely populated coasts, sparsely populated areas in the midwest generally do much worse in education than the coasts. But stop quoting a blatantly false document.

And please stop bringing up or referencing conspiracy theories, you make yourself and anybody associated with you look stupid.

Verified false.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/ballot/stateiq.asp

[Ryan Stewart]

Holmes's stupid ass FTMFL!

[rwh11385]

Actual numbers here:

http://www.zombietime.com/iq_of_2004_voters_by_state/

google is an amazing thing. if he fucking googled that misinforming chart before blindly posting it, he would have known better. fucking dysfunctional pothead can't even get into a real college. no wonder!

Kerry voters: IQ 100.96 ~> 101
Bush voters: IQ 98.73 ~> 99

p.s. Mississippi is still the dumbest state in the Union...

[delatlanta1281]

The only thing that made me even a little questionable was the "hole in the side of the pentagon and the "lack of debris". But being somewhat intelligent, I realize those pics could have been taken after it was cleared. It's still a bunch of b.s. Kinda on the same topic, there was a show on last night that tried to explain "what really happened" to that flight over the meadowlands outside of the city. Who knows the nuts and bolts? I don't remember enough to even think it was shot down.

[Kip]

Greenspan, Ridge, Supreme Court, Rove, and Wolfowitz, not to mention the various Undersecretary of's... Lots of appointed/hired slots with lifelong tenure opportunities.
Maybe it's my libertarian side wondering how we got from "Life, Liberty, Pusuit of Happiness" (which is parphrased John Locke, except substitute property ownership for pursuit of happiness...Jefferson fucked up, changed it, now we can't actually own property(for those who wish to disagree, quit paying property taxes)) Ayn Rand was nuts, but John Galt was dead on..

I dunno which movie you are talking about. But I can't quite see how the whole plane that hit the Pentagon vaporised. I know, some say it did, explain how, etc. Too much info for both sides.

Don't make my foil hat quite yet...

[Ryan Stewart]

Except for the court appointees those people are staffers and can get canned by the next prez. Also Bush cant put anyone into the court that wasnt approved.

Except for executive actions there are some checks and balances.

[Kip]

Ryan, ever hear of the Senior Executive Service? These guys develop policy while the appointed directors come and go. Other areas have tons of "staffers" but they do not change with administration.

As for the court, most seem to agree that Robert Bork is one of the keenest minds around, and should have been appointed. Politics killed that.

Google govenment advisory boards. Check that out.

http://osaka.law.miami.edu/~froomkin/articles/reinvent.htm#xtocid291713

This details government corporations.

This thread is starting to hurt my head. Might be the microwaves, too. JK!!!

I have not earned much of my paycheck today.

[Ryan Stewart]

Im not saying there aren't a lot of staff or that they cant keep their jobs but its hardly like we would be stuck with them like a judge.

Trust me, I know how deep the beurocracy goes, I have done (and probably will do) contract work for Dept of Homeland Security and a few others. They have commitees to develop commitees.