Is a college degree really worth it anymore???

[Bimmerman325i]

Whether college vs trade school vs alternative is necessary depends a lot on what you want to do and what you're expecting to get from it. If all you want is to be able to support yourself/family, college/trade school/none is a very tricky question, as there are many routes to accomplish that rather vague and non-specific goal.

If you don't have a specific profession (doctor, lawyer, engineer, etc) or trade (welder, plumber, electrician, mechanic, etc) in mind, it might not be the right answer. If you enjoy learning for learning's sake, and value the critical reasoning skills you gain more than job-specific training, then that is the actual point of a liberal arts education, and is not a wasted endeavor, but you will have a tougher time finding work.

Where the school value falls apart is in expecting trade school or university to guarantee you a well paying job. Very few fields and majors will do that, or even can do that.

Personally, I could not have gotten my job without going to grad school in engineering, so schooling was absolutely worth it and essential. I am the rare person at my company without a PhD, and it was extremely tough to get the job with only a MS-- industry experience and a strong background is what tipped the scale in favor of giving me a chance, and I've thrived. I worked all during undergrad to pay for school, and did well enough to get a full ride to grad school. I didn't sleep much or have any social life to make school + work + extracurriculars + cars happen, but I graduated without any debt and have a kick ass job, so....that was 100% worth it.

Some fields really do require a degree (or more) or a certification (or more). If that is what you want to do, don't assume that the very rare exception to this rule will be you.

[mcm185]

Those certifications are somewhat the equivalent to a Bachelor's Degree, they are still training in a field that you'll work in. I think that's what people don't understand is that there seems to be more emphasis placed upon college education and trade schools have been demoted to second class. I don't really see this as the reality.

In each, you are training yourself for the future. Regardless of what type of school you go to, you are learning a skillset and being able to apply that skillset to meet deadlines while working within a team to achieve a goal. Whether you are performing open heart surgery or extracting oil from the ground, you still need a particular skillset to do those things and you need to be able to have the interpersonal and organizational skills to be able to do the job effectively.

When viewed in this light, they are all very similar. And your question is answered with, "schooling of some sort is required for you to achieve the level of income and security that everyone seeks in life." Doesn't have to be in a college/university setting, but there needs to be some level of training/schooling so that you develop the skills that you'll need in the field of your choosing. Notice I highlighted interpersonal and organization skills, specifically because these are transferable to any field, as the reality of life is that most people's working life will feature several "careers" as the economy changes and people adapt to that economy.

I agree, a good personality, work ethic and love of the profession will go a long way towards being successful. A college degree does not necessarily help with any of these but it is a 'ticket in the door' for some professions, such as engineering. There are many where you can work your way from the bottom up.

In many cases the ticket may be other certifications as you mentioned and these are all great fields.

No one should feel forced to go to college and certainly there are some degrees that are terrible investments.

[mbonder]

Like any investment it's value is based on the Net Present Value of Future Cash Flows.

But there are many honorable trades where you can make just as much without a degree but you need to obtain certain qualifications. For instance I know welders making 150k plus in the oil industry or with the proper nuclear pipe welding certifications.

Those certifications are somewhat the equivalent to a Bachelor's Degree, they are still training in a field that you'll work in. I think that's what people don't understand is that there seems to be more emphasis placed upon college education and trade schools have been demoted to second class. I don't really see this as the reality.

In each, you are training yourself for the future. Regardless of what type of school you go to, you are learning a skillset and being able to apply that skillset to meet deadlines while working within a team to achieve a goal. Whether you are performing open heart surgery or extracting oil from the ground, you still need a particular skillset to do those things and you need to be able to have the interpersonal and organizational skills to be able to do the job effectively.

When viewed in this light, they are all very similar. And your question is answered with, "schooling of some sort is required for you to achieve the level of income and security that everyone seeks in life." Doesn't have to be in a college/university setting, but there needs to be some level of training/schooling so that you develop the skills that you'll need in the field of your choosing. Notice I highlighted interpersonal and organization skills, specifically because these are transferable to any field, as the reality of life is that most people's working life will feature several "careers" as the economy changes and people adapt to that economy.

[mcm185]

Like any investment it's value is based on the Net Present Value of Future Cash Flows.

So, getting a degree in something useful is worth it. I have a BS in Mechanical Engineering from a good engineering school. I made 70k right out of college in 2007.

So yes I would say it is worth it if you chose a degree that is in demand and then are willing to relocate to an area where the demand is highest.

But there are many honorable trades where you can make just as much without a degree but you need to obtain certain qualifications. For instance I know welders making 150k plus in the oil industry or with the proper nuclear pipe welding certifications.

[nando]

I only have an AA degree - I work in engineering. I'm not an engineer (not sure I'd want to be), but I make as much if not more than many of the engineers. However, I'm pretty sure I'm near a ceiling in what I can earn. The only path higher from where I'm at now is in management, but I really enjoy the technical side of things.

Either way, I think it would be wise to consider schooling other than high school - the statistics are pretty consistent. If you want to follow a path like Sleeve's, go to a trade school and take welding classes. Good welders are always in demand - there are a lot of bad ones out there, and it pays well.

Otherwise, there's nothing wrong with getting a degree - and a lot of time, people don't end up working in the same field they went to school for, but it still helps their career overall.

If I were to get a DO I'd probably do computer science, but instead it's a fun hobby. As it is, it would make more sense to take my education in an engineering direction rather than starting over. I'm just not certain I would be any happier (or wealthier) as an actual engineer instead of a pretend one. So for me, the extra 2-3 years of school (and debt) to get a BA hasn't been missed.

[BobombETA]

Depends on your degree. The older generations operate under the notions that any college degree will land you a cush job.

I'd say unless you're studying engineering or medicine it probably isn't worth it. Maybe finance, and I know geologists are in demand as well.

But your MBA is gonna get you fuck-all in the job market, unless you graduate from an elite school.

Why do you say this? As someone considering getting their MBA from a non-elite school.

[anabolice30]

Depends on your degree. The older generations operate under the notions that any college degree will land you a cush job.

I'd say unless you're studying engineering or medicine it probably isn't worth it. Maybe finance, and I know geologists are in demand as well.

But your MBA is gonna get you fuck-all in the job market, unless you graduate from an elite school.

[Wschnitz]

I'm a game developer with no degree. It seems more important to have the skills and willingness to learn than the degree in this field. On a side note I just hired a guy to make me some cable railings for my deck, aka a welder, and he's loaded. Took forever to get my railings done because he was on vacation all the time. He also has several amazing cars and a 50 foot boat. If I had to do it over again I might look into welding.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

IMO game dev is all about luck and getting good opportunities. I would never throw away my money getting a degree in it today. Maybe Programming or software engineering then try to get into game dev scene, but most of those "game dev" degrees are throwing money away I think.

This situation is entirely dependent on field, No degree engineer seems pretty tough unless you want to work on an oil job in bumfuck no where. And still not be an engineer.

In a few years my field might turn into a non degree field, Network engineering has gotten so streamlined recently its pretty much studying for certs, which from what I gather are just a pissing contest in the real world, with half the professionals not actually taking them.

At this point and time in America you wont get payed what you are worth if you have one or not. No one is willing to pay valuable employees enough to keep them around, yet they complain day in and day out about how frickin hard it is to find good people.

They seem to find plenty of good workers with green cards...

[deutschman]

At this point and time in America you wont get payed what you are worth if you have one or not. No one is willing to pay valuable employees enough to keep them around, yet they complain day in and day out about how frickin hard it is to find good people.

[imjusthere]

Unless you dream is to be a feminist or weld its way worth it.

I'm a game developer with no degree. It seems more important to have the skills and willingness to learn than the degree in this field. On a side note I just hired a guy to make me some cable railings for my deck, aka a welder, and he's loaded. Took forever to get my railings done because he was on vacation all the time. He also has several amazing cars and a 50 foot boat. If I had to do it over again I might look into welding.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[mrsleeve]

If this kind of career growth is possible, what would you say is the reason this job sector isn't being saturated?

Like I said we have lots of people try, and 95% of them dont finish the 1st job away from home. ..... Yes its getting a bit full now that the work load is slowing down some what. I dont mind it though, I work 5-7 months a year and make a what most people would consider a very good wage for working all year, my bosses are fine with me taking the time as there are plenty of guys to cover.

Talk about work life balance. When I am at work thats all there is, WORK, but when I am off, I am off and liven a place most people only get to vacation in and do what ever the fuck I want every day for months at a time, Just have to stick to the monthly budget, which is considerable. I worked my ass off to get to here, and yes short of working 12 months a year I am topped out for the most part. At this point I am happy with the hours I get in the 6ish busy summer months, and enjoy the rest of the year with my family and doing what I want.

I am considering going back to school, but for something I WANT to study and because I WANT too, not because I "think I have to" or "think its necessary" or because "society tells me I have too" to earn a living good enough to support my family comfortably. I can do that already.

[Herr Faust Schinken]

Short answer yes. It opens a lot of doors. Go to communtiy college take some courses to improve your gpa and try again. Sometimes you gotta take a step back to take two forward.

DO THIS. I have half my undergrad done for free basically and because your in CA you should be eligible for the BOG waver at any CA CC which means each semester should be about 46 bucks. Im glad Im glad i did my lower division stuff at a community college ( yes its boring and it took my 3 years instead of 2, but my grandfather died and my life fell apart so it wasn't the fault of the school).

[lambo]

So did your way work? Are you at your specified income straight out of College?

Sure did. The minute I graduate in May, I walk straight into a job at that level and I'm not the only one.

The problem as I see it, is people believe that if they go to college they are guaranteed a 60k+ salary, and it just doesn't work like that. Racking up mountains of debt in the hopes of snagging a job good enough to pay it off is a gamble.

You talk about college like everyone is some art or english student at NYU. There are plenty of level headed people out here that are going to reasonable schools and studying things that have a prospective future. So, can we stop making this generalization?

There are millions of other legitimate opportunities out there that will easily attain your dreams without following the beaten path.

I will be going back to school, don't get me wrong, but I will be paying for it up front and taking my time. I'm definitely doing it backwards, but I, and many others are managing just fine without a Degree to help us along.

I never said there weren't and I never said you can't get along just fine without a degree. I did say that it is not possible to get to the higher ranks a technical field, and by technical I really mean engineering, with just "life experience". Sure, you could have done that in the late 80's and early 90's. But, despite what year it is in the forests of Montana, it is 2016 in the real world. You can't walk up to an aerospace firm in Seattle and just willy nilly into a job right out of high school. Even if you do manage to land something, you're going to reach a salary cap that, as you have found out, requires a degree to surpass.

[2761377]

If this kind of career growth is possible, what would you say is the reason this job sector isn't being saturated?

the growth you're talking about is available in my trade, and I live in SoCal. it involves a union apprenticeship, with 6 or 8 semesters of mandatory classroom instruction. it's nearly impossible to find 18-20 year old's motivated to negotiate all the hoops.

and in sleeve's case, his trade is physically demanding, so there's that.

[alas]

I just stumbled upon this thread... So what did you end up doing, 2mAn?

I would say if you're already in a career you enjoy, and school isn't required for you to move up, then what's the point?

If you're looking for a new career or a move other than lateral requires further education, then keep trying. Obviously this was a couple years ago, so I'm sure you've already made up your mind by now. :)


-E