homebuying fun (caution: stupidly wide .jpg)

[mrsleeve]

^
I am kinda in that spot with the place we bought this summer. I feel like we bought it right, and it is livable as is. That said the more she has been here, and now that I have about 3 weeks in my own bed there is more we want to do to it than I think we can get back out of it. Our neighbors has been for sale since july and not sold even though it has had a ton of intrest in it. Not sure why, people keep waking away from it or why its not appraising . So I am worried about dumping 30-40k into this place and pricing my self outta my neighborhood/ price range of buyers looking for something lik this place....

We are not looking to do builder grade finishes, if we were to do that I could make flip it and make a bit of money there but thats not what we have now and its only 13 years old ....... why replace crap with more crap right.. Thanks for your candor.

[evandael]

well, why has the neighbor's not sold? have you toured it? often if people cut corners, buyers will know, and that plants the seed that maybe there's a better place.

out of curiosity, what are they asking? i don't know your market, but in pittsburgh, most houses (unless they are in a hot neighborhood) sell for 90% of list price.

so, some quick math:

take their list price * .90, then you have your sell price
take your purchase price + planned reno budget * .10 (contingency), then you have your investment
divide your investment by .70, and if it's lower than your sell price, you have a solid investment (works out to around 20% ROI + costs of sale)

[tim88325is]

Were those PEX supply lines installed by a pro or DIY? Just curious...

Builder grade versus premium is really toss up like everything else in life, a balance between immediate enjoyment and potential return.

I just put a Lowes Kohler kitchen sink in my place because I decided to do it on a Sunday morning when a leak started. Is it a massive improvement to the 30yo stainless steel one, most definitely but is it as nice as a real one?

The Lowes sink will look good for the next ten years and "real" Kohler might look good the next 20 but where do I plan to be in that time frame? Should I spend my cash now for those extra years of quality that I may or may not enjoy?

[mrsleeve]

Neighbors place is bigger, by about a 1/3 for sq//ft and 1 additional bed room, but while the additions look good from the outside they were poorly executed on the inside as far as lay out and functionality go. Its mostly done in "good" lowes / H.D. quality materials and it is a decent place. They have more out buildings but we have more under roof work/clod storage space and much more finished and heated shop/barn space. Lot is same size.

They listed at about 100k more than we paid for ours this spring, and for the area, and so on it was an aggressive price, but should have sold they have come down about 30 and are stuck there as that pay off, so we have been told. since they got a ton of improvement loans on the place a few years ago.

Weird thing is, rents around here start at about 1200 and range all the way up to 4500, 1200 gets you a dump where the toilet may work or may not and the furnace is iffy at best. So them listing where they did falls into the category in general if you can afford to rent a 4b/2.5ba at 2k a month you aught be able to buy it.... So is it not appraising, or are the inspectors finding something thats a deal breaker, or are all the people writing the offers just trying to get to far outta of their affordability.

So if its not appraising well, we are afraid of putting money into this place with hardwoods and tile and really good kitchen and then pricing out of the intended market this place falls into with living space and simple lay out. Even though ours appraised for about 5% over our sale price as is..

Tim your right its all about balance and "how long" do we intend to stay here, for the next 5 years maybe 7 and then move up so is the really good vinyl plank from the flooring store that goes down fast and is indestructible good enough. Vs the time and effort and 25% extra expense of hardwood we love worth it. We can afford what we want, but is it worth it when its time to move on, is the question.

thanks guys

[mbonder]

Honestly, if their layout isn't ideal, I could see that really affecting potential buyers. I'd say that I'm more educated about real estate than the average homebuyer because I worked in construction on the residential side, but I have learned that especially for many female homebuyers, if it visually looks off in some way, that's the death knell for that sale. Often women (and I'm using my wife and mother as the examples here as well as women that I've worked for) can't even tell you why they don't like it but they'll tell you something just doesn't look right.

The reality is that if that's the case, it's not like you can change it easily like you would a paint color or some wood trim or doors. So people will walk rather than spend the next 30 years paying for something they don't think is ideal.

If your house has a good layout and you plan to be in the home for 5-7 years I'd say as long as the market doesn't grenade you'll see the return on your investment in better materials. Plus even if it costs you 10% in the end, I'd still say it's worth that to be able to truly enjoy your home. Sometimes I feel like people are so set on getting every last dollar back that they don't actually enjoy owning the property because every decision is based on money rather than desire.

Being financially responsible is obviously of utmost importance, however, you seem to have your ducks in a row when it comes to money, make sure you enjoy yourself every now and then too, otherwise, life ain't worth livin'!

[flyboyx]

Honestly, if their layout isn't ideal, I could see that really affecting potential buyers. I'd say that I'm more educated about real estate than the average homebuyer because I worked in construction on the residential side, but I have learned that especially for many female homebuyers, if it visually looks off in some way, that's the death knell for that sale. Often women (and I'm using my wife and mother as the examples here as well as women that I've worked for) can't even tell you why they don't like it but they'll tell you something just doesn't look right.

The reality is that if that's the case, it's not like you can change it easily like you would a paint color or some wood trim or doors. So people will walk rather than spend the next 30 years paying for something they don't think is ideal.

If your house has a good layout and you plan to be in the home for 5-7 years I'd say as long as the market doesn't grenade you'll see the return on your investment in better materials. Plus even if it costs you 10% in the end, I'd still say it's worth that to be able to truly enjoy your home. Sometimes I feel like people are so set on getting every last dollar back that they don't actually enjoy owning the property because every decision is based on money rather than desire.

Being financially responsible is obviously of utmost importance, however, you seem to have your ducks in a row when it comes to money, make sure you enjoy yourself every now and then too, otherwise, life ain't worth livin'!

i think there is a lot of wisdom in these paragraphs. i am fortunate that my wife can see potential in crappy homes we look at. unfortunately, she sometimes doesn't have a realistic idea of the cost of fixing it.

for me(us really), if i am going to go to the trouble of renovating something, i am going to make it nice. it won't be top end, but it won't be builder grade either.

i know where to buy beautiful kitchen cabinets very cheaply(i sent you a pm about it last week sleeve). i know where to go to buy porcelain tile and wood flooring at the contractor's price. i am always looking at the closeout aisle when i go to the home center. the reality is that if you install it yourself, you can do a gorgeous bathroom for two grand and an amazing kitchen with granite countertops and stainless appliances for well under 7k. (at least in this area anyway) those kind of prices should fit into anyone's realistic budget.

[mrsleeve]

Yeah I got that flyboy, I thought I sent you a reply ( edit nope never hit send I guess its not in my out box either). My self am not opposed to such an option its just I likely will have pay some very high labor costs to get someone else to put them together thus negating nearly all the savings....

Yes thats the plan is to make it much nicer than what it is, just not going nearly top end stuff, its just the fact that the Hardwoods we like are pushing 10 bucks a sq/ft to install (since I will likely not be home to do it) and even in our fairly small house that adds up fast...... Kitchen is going to be expensive, the granite for the island is going to be 3500ish on its own ( yes its a BIG ISLAND)

[flyboyx]

Yeah I got that flyboy, I thought I sent you a reply ( edit nope never hit send I guess its not in my out box either). My self am not opposed to such an option its just I likely will have pay some very high labor costs to get someone else to put them together thus negating nearly all the savings....

Yes thats the plan is to make it much nicer than what it is, just not going nearly top end stuff, its just the fact that the Hardwoods we like are pushing 10 bucks a sq/ft to install (since I will likely not be home to do it) and even in our fairly small house that adds up fast...... Kitchen is going to be expensive, the granite for the island is going to be 3500ish on its own ( yes its a BIG ISLAND)

no worries.

sheesh! apparently labor is a lot more there than here. i have a granite guy that i have used on several projects. generally the entire kitchen costs less then 2500 bucks installed.

[mrsleeve]

yeah we have a bit of a housing shortage around here, hence the high rents where most jobs around will barley cut it. Framers are getting like 32+, Tile guys are booked 3-4 months out, and your bid might change to cost 20% more next week if you want to keep your slot, granite starts at 65 a foot installed, flooring guys are 2-5 bucks a foot another 2-5 if your doing site finished, roofers dont call back. Yeah I can do 90% of this stuff, if I was home to do it.

[tim88325is]

A couple thoughts to add...

The Lowes Kohler sink was still made in USA and using Kohler brand cleaner makes it look brand new. Not sure if this sink could be totally defined as "builder grade". I have also had good luck getting the cheapest model in a good brand, our dishwasher is the cheapest Bosch, kinda like the E30 was the cheapest BMW but does exactly what it needs to do.

The last kitchen I did a total gut, I used maple countertops, which are relatively cheap and easy to work with. I used white tin ceiling panels for the backsplash, sanitary, interesting texture, glue-up install.

My point being that the maple countertops/tin back splash were great and could be used forever OR you could easily pull then out and put in marble/tile in five or ten years.

Personally, if I am faced with a $3500 granite island countertop, I would start to think "I know I can afford it now but what about in 5 or 10 years?", "Would $800 of maple countertop make me nearly as happy with much less expenditure?".

I am trying to convince my wife to do the kitchen open shelving thing, i.e. no upper cabinets, roll the saved money into nice dishware, and try it out for a couple years. If she hates it in 2 years, no harm, just put in cabinets that we saved for over the last few years.

[evandael]

Minor update!

mock-up of the bathroom vanity (plumbing yet to be connected, Allegheny County plumbing code is ridiculous)




laying subway tile (floor-to-ceiling, what a task!)






the bar-garage door is installed, tensioned, and operable!





I've been spending the week on the phone with the water authority. Neighbor's (a shitty landlord) service inlet pipe was leaking, sending a slow but steady flow of water into my basement. Of course, they denied responsibility.. but were eventually coerced into fixing it. Love that rowhouse life! My next place will likely be a detached home.

[evandael]

Were those PEX supply lines installed by a pro or DIY? Just curious...

Sorry I missed this! It was a contractor, not me, though I think I could have done it (and probably in a more orderly fashion, because I'm very particular about things).

[z31maniac]

If you haven't already, having the faucet that close to the edge of the sink is infuriating.

You can't get your hands between the faucet and the sink and end up splashing water everywhere when you wash your hands.

One of those small things that drive me insane.

[flyboyx]

pretty damn nice work evandel.

[TeXJ]

That bar-garage door thing is PIMP!

Where'd you buy that at?