American Brave New World

[rwh11385]

So this idea isn't fully formed yet, but here is my observation as it rests right now.

Society has in place natural and cultural divides that break us up as people. Whether ancestorial, biological, or finciancial, the country has formed segments in the people. Furthermore, in many cases, genetic and status precursors keep an individual in their class as well as learned behavioral concepts.

Now it can be for discussion whether the moderate intelligence prep and jocks are betas or alphas and the nerdy socially-inept engineers are placed above or below as intelligence and conditioning was the main attribute of classification in the book, but I also feel as though the strong in many areas fellow is more powerful and dominant than a nerd.

Anyway, think about how Huxley places each individual baby into a sector of society and it is raised to be in love with its position and feel as though others are misguided in the love of theirs. There is no jealousy like sometimes can occur in this society, but even so, the technician can enjoy his work and be happy he doesn't have to do all that education, and a doctor can love his profession even though he went through a decade of schooling.

A baby born to a wealthy, highly educated family is automatically destined to be more likely to go to college and be successful, as well as more probable to be intelligent and of good shape. (Most popular and successful people are taller and more attractive, and more attractive people mate, making more attractive babies which continues the legacy.) On the other hand, a baby born to a poor uneducated family is destined to be more likely to get pregnant earlier while poor, drop out, and repeat the process. A kid of a nerd is more likely to be smarter than average, and be raised in a home that encourages the repeat of behaviors and follow the same footsteps t become an engineer as well.

Although people can step out of their parent's shadows and make something of themselves, it is not as likely as sticking to their historical district of mankind. There is pressure against such a move as well - which can be seen in any high school where people frown on social mobility.

It should be clear that society does have certain roles, some of which are filled by leaders, others by intelligent thinkers, and others by immigrants who do the dirty work not many others will. I don't think this will change, but maybe it will eventually evolve into a more physically structured effort and make each person happier in their avenue.

In the preaching of the American dream, some others have realized this may or may not be the case any longer. As much as affirmative action tries to force minorities or people who are in lower economic tiers up into the middleground or higher, it is usually not that effective. There may be a hardworking, determined individual to work through high school and college to make it to med school, but those cases are rare. Is the country moving to a class system too similar to India's culture? Who knows. The future will tell.

please reply with your comments and observations. I truly think that society does have classes in which we grow comfortable in and make it tough for our kids to break out of. Especially in college and in majors, the divide between the alpha engineering, beta business/nursing, and gamma technology/communication/history draws on the idea that people are capable of different levels of education and are destined to reach different levels of wealth and provide differently for their offspring.

[Jonathan M3]

cliff notes?

[xLibelle]

cliff notes?

the last few sentances

[benDASHDASH]

cliff notes?

[rwh11385]

cliff notes?

The American dream is dead by the presence of a possible semi-rigid class structure. Maybe not as strict as surf-knight-king, but still not to the ideal of "all men are created equal" and have equal potentials. Those born in the gated communities to intelligent parents are likely to succeed whereas those in worse conditions are fighting an uphill battle to achieve outside of what they were born into.

[BimmerToad]

The American dream is dead by the presence of a possible semi-rigid class structure. Maybe not as strict as surf-knight-king, but still not to the ideal of "all men are created equal" and have equal potentials. Those born in the gated communities to intelligent parents are likely to succeed whereas those in worse conditions are fighting an uphill battle to achieve outside of what they were born into.

I think the idea of the American dream has always been a gross simplification, and perhaps an over-exaggeration of the reality. One advantage America does have over some other societies is that there is a fairly large middle class, and there is mobility within the whole system through merit. However merit only gets you so far, and no man is created equal. Fortunately the laws that govern this country assume everyone is created equal, (although wealth, race, and other factors do skew the idea) which is one of the strengths of this country.

At times of explosive growth, I think the idea of the American dream is more applicable, such as the expansion of the country westward, industrialization, discovery of gold/oil, even the internet boom. During those times of great opportunity, people willing to risk more can move up in class, but almost always have to risk more than people that started with more.

Easiest way to make a fortune is start to with a larger fortune, and people wanting to move upward in class always have to fight against this truth.

Recently I've read a few articles that stated that worldwide, the rich are becoming richer, and the poor poorer. While this trend is not reassuring, I am not suggesting wealth should be redistributed through taxes or large social programs. Those would only shove business out of the country, crippling the economy. I lean more towards the belief of capitalism, where incentive is provided for people to work harder/smarter, but some regulations must be placed to keep people from exploiting others (unfortunately a very gray area).

my $0.02

[rwh11385]

I think the idea of the American dream has always been a gross simplification, and perhaps an over-exaggeration of the reality. One advantage America does have over some other societies is that there is a fairly large middle class, and there is mobility within the whole system through merit. However merit only gets you so far, and no man is created equal. Fortunately the laws that govern this country assume everyone is created equal, (although wealth, race, and other factors do skew the idea) which is one of the strengths of this country.

At times of explosive growth, I think the idea of the American dream is more applicable, such as the expansion of the country westward, industrialization, discovery of gold/oil, even the internet boom. During those times of great opportunity, people willing to risk more can move up in class, but almost always have to risk more than people that started with more.

Easiest way to make a fortune is start to with a larger fortune, and people wanting to move upward in class always have to fight against this truth.

Recently I've read a few articles that stated that worldwide, the rich are becoming richer, and the poor poorer. While this trend is not reassuring, I am not suggesting wealth should be redistributed through taxes or large social programs. Those would only shove business out of the country, crippling the economy. I lean more towards the belief of capitalism, where incentive is provided for people to work harder/smarter, but some regulations must be placed to keep people from exploiting others (unfortunately a very gray area).

my $0.02

Very true points when commenting on the opportunies America presented throughout its growth, where people who took chances could make their fortunes. Perhaps we have settled down too much. During manifest destiny and other times of great growth, people had a great opportunity to make something of themselves.

Worldwide, poverty at least has declined, except for Africa that is. Asia and other areas of the world has benefited from globalization. Sure, the "Delta's" whose entry-level work may have suffered from outsourcing, but the world as a whole has grown together and markets have grown that we can benefit from (Coke machines in India for those working in call centers).

Perhaps we will have a venturing of business in all regions of the world and someone "fit" into this "new world" of international exhange and multi-national corporations. America has always been (since WWII) the business and productive stronghold of the world, so expansion of our companies abroad makes sense.

But there will probably always be those cleaning up after others, and those doing work in cubicles, and those supervising from corner offices... whether those who are being outsourced will adjust and educate themselves so they can move up, or stay the same and struggle is still to be seen.

And if anyone has seen Idiocracy, maybe the US will suffer from the uneducated repopulating at a faster rate than those intelligent enough to find birth control. We will have to see. As much as engineers are becoming semi-commodity, they are always useful even as supply keeps growing. But the country only needs so many unskilled janitors, which may lead to unemployment and hardship from the lower classes.

[BimmerToad]

And if anyone has seen Idiocracy, maybe the US will suffer from the uneducated repopulating at a faster rate than those intelligent enough to find birth control. We will have to see. As much as engineers are becoming semi-commodity, they are always useful even as supply keeps growing. But the country only needs so many unskilled janitors, which may lead to unemployment and hardship from the lower classes.

Great movie btw.

In the future we will definitely have to struggle as a country to remain economically advantaged over the rest of the world, and with the rise of technology educated people (call them engineers) in other countries (China and India ... ironically educated here) and the decline in graduation of US born Engineers. We will not just have to work harder to maintain that global advantage, we must remain innovative as a country. If we remain the technological innovation capital of the world, I believe we can remain economically advantaged as we do today.

As it stands today, innovation comes from the US, China or India manages the manufacturing and some R&D, and US corps. profit. This has come to be because we have a higher expectation of living in the US, which makes more manufacturing unprofitable here, while the standard of living in other parts of the world is much less, so pay can be much less. Now if we try to maintain our standard of living with a lack of an advantage in the global market, we will end up creating tons of social programs and government subsidies, which drives business elsewhere to cheaper countries. Either we remain technologically superior, or start lowering our standard of living expectations .

I agree with you that growth today is a result of globalization, and in the capitalization of differences in labor wages between countries.

It will be interesting to see what happens the next 5-10yrs in the outsourcing capitals of the world (China and India notably). With increased labor costs that result from an educated class in those countries, will they remain competitive, or will they expect a higher standard of living and reduce their global economic advantage? Already some industries in China are outsourcing to even cheaper regions of Southeast Asia. Will China's economy hit a recession? (when it fails to maintain a 10% growth in national GDP and worker forces start to unionize and demand higher pay or better working conditions) You can't keep a country growing at such an astronomical rate.

Ultimately a reduction in science graduates isn't helping our future outlook, but I'm still optimistic.

[NC325iC]

people who say shit like this use it as an excuse, you can be whatever you want to be, you can break any classes you just have to believe in yourself enough to do it.

[1991 318is]

Proof? Look no farther than Donald Trump. Everyone would like have his money or marry it but no one wants to look like that turkey. Anyone want a faux comb over? So much for the "beautiful people." And how about the brain power of Anna Nicole Smith's husband?
Question: Do women throw themselves at Bill Gates?
You could make a much more compelling argument for a power elite, with the media controlling the sheep or the rise to power by ruthless amoral sociopaths.

[rwh11385]

In the future we will definitely have to struggle as a country to remain economically advantaged over the rest of the world,

It will be interesting to see what happens the next 5-10yrs in the outsourcing capitals of the world (China and India notably). With increased labor costs that result from an educated class in those countries, will they remain competitive, or will they expect a higher standard of living and reduce their global economic advantage?

I was quite surprised when I found out that the US is the most productive nation in the world (doubling second place Japan). When I look around at the people who typically work in the US, they don't seem so productive. If the country slides down and stops being more advanced and on top of the world, I don't want to imagine what could happen to the value of the dollar, state of the economy (especially with large national internal and foreign debt), or employment. Costly imported raw supplies from abroad within our MNC's could make for a great supply shock, and then reprocussive aftereffects. Scary.

What is definitely ironic is the competition getting educated in the States. Sometimes they stick around and fight US grads for jobs here, but when they go back, it's one step closer to them being equal in capabilities. And what is the talk of US education systems are poor? Surely many public high schools are lacking and standards seem to be dropping (Mencia 'lower the standards' song) but universities must be pretty good if the country is seeing a fair number of international students coming here.

I too am curious too about the future of Chindia. Right now I believe only a third of Chinese population have flushing toilets. There is a ton of room for improvement in standard of living there, same as India. Perhaps over time there will be a rise in their wage rate and sending jobs there will no longer be benefitial, but i doubt it. One thing to think about is when jobs go abroad, what says there isn't job creation here as well? Someone has to provide medical supplies, food, and housing technology and why not be the economy that is creating the demand for higher standard of living with the jobs there?

What is good is that the US has a great amount of economic power founded in its technology and innovation. As long as the nation keeps pushing the able into science and math AP classes, and then a good college, and they stay on the ball and study - there can be a continuation of dominance. It must be a cultural drive to be self-actualized, instead of a slacker. Asians, from my experience, have a great push from their parents to do well in school and be successful. Some parents are on PTA and help with homework and force applications to reach schools, but some are satsified with mediocracy. That will be the death of the nation, or at least economy, if it grows too common.

Centuries ago, an empire was forged by men with spears, while today the world is brought today by economics. I believe the globalization can bring the world together and since a negative supply shock (destruction of war) would hurt all parties involved with trade, I look forward to global interchange promoting peace. China was once a great threat or fear, but now that trade is vital between both nations, I see them as a growing ally nor potential foe.

It has been good to discuss internal and global economics with someone who seems to have a pretty good understanding of situations. Let's just hope that the nation has more than the minority who understand the importance of a solid education and strength of the populace's human capital, not just graduating and "getting by". If the outsourcable jobs do go abroad to the extent of actuaries, financial analysts, as well as programmers - are people going to be willing to shift and move to another industry? Manufacturing jobs are going already, and let's hope that people won't just sit and be idle, waiting for the government to take care of them. In some models, a shift in labor from immigration or the removal of capital only shifts what is produced, and wages remain the same. But of course the real world is more complicated than just K and L, and w and r. Things clearly are not that simple, but it is clear the US cannot remain on its pedestal if it does not work to do so.