Should a body shop charge markup on parts they buy for repairs

[Teaguer]

a Body shop has no expenses directly related to a part they get for a customer car and therefore should not charge any sort of markup.

Are you fucking retarded ??!!

I'm sure you can see by the posts here what the overall consensus is .

But I'll just add that most shops (body or mech) will usually only charge the dealers list price to customers anyway .
Some shops will automatically boost up the list price 10-20-30 percent or whatever as a standard procedure or on a case by case basis .

[ptownTSI]

Usually, its the shops that screw everyone. For the most part WE HAVE TO PAY what we are billed. We have independent appraisals for all the work we bill out to keep them honest. they will bill us for brand new headlights for $600 and go get LKQ (like kind and quality) for $200. on a repaint they will get around 2-2.5 hours to put on headlamp and taillamps, and logos. And another 1/2 hour to aim the headlamps. thats over $200-$250.

Most of the time everything is set by Mitchell software but shops will always try to squeeze extra frame time, bill for putting fasteners on a panel even though it should be included in the labor for putting the panel on orginally, purposefully give a low estimate to keep a car from being totaled, and then come back with an outrageous supplement.

Many shops charge a 50-70% markup on all parts they get.

lots of shop's don't pay bodymen and painters what they are due. Many of the body shops that I won't go too anymore spend all their money on glamorous waiting rooms, marble floors, flat screen tv's, elaborate buildings, etc. I can't recall the last time I needed engine work that my machinist had all of this.

Last time i went to the body shop on my own i got SCREWED, the guy charged me $400 + tax for a job that should have been no more than $200. They painted a tailgate for my jeep. I stripped all the trim, window, latches, and wiring, all they had to do was sand and paint. They billed it out at over $100 an hr and then left me with an orange peeled panel.

I don't really mind it at the insurance level, I usually pay whatever comes across my desk without incident unless it really makes me raise an eyebrow. It just really pisses me off that if I want something done on a personal vehicle that i'm paying out of my pocket that I get absolutely taken to the cleaners.

[ptownTSI]

Are you fucking retarded ??!!

I'm sure you can see by the posts here what the overall consensus is .

But I'll just add that most shops (body or mech) will usually only charge the dealers list price to customers anyway .
Some shops will automatically boost up the list price 10-20-30 percent or whatever as a standard procedure or on a case by case basis .

well what fucking expense do they have on a part that someone usually DELIVERS to them.

When you get a bid from a carpenter to build you a fence, does he buy the wood and then charge you more for it. HELL NO!! I used to work for a carpenter in the summer when i was younger.

[ptownTSI]

as a general rule, i rate insurance companies just slightly above child rapists and genocidal dictators. insurance companies are out to screw EVERYBODY in the equation - the insured as well as the shop doing the repairs. i have no doubt that shops have to fight tooth and nail to get a fair price from insurers, just like consumers have to fight to get a fair price for a totaled vehicles, etc.

we are required to give you the actual cash value of your vehicle. if its in good shape you get enough money to get another car just like yours. Some companies are really bad, but mine, and especially my division where all i handle is our insureds vehicles, its a pretty simple equation. I sit right next to the total loss team and the only time i could think of someone getting "screwed" is when they had pre-existing damage to their vehicle. Otherwise if NADA says your car is worth X amount of dollars, then that is what you get!

if you think your car is special or worth more than other cars like yours then you need to have an endorsement on your policy for your modifications or stated value coverage.

[Justin B]

I think there's a little bit of a difference between building a fence for someone, and going anywhere, in this case a bodyshop, and getting an itemized bill, including parts that are ordered to complete the job. For a fence you're paying for a fence to be built for you, pricing of wood isn't in the picture.

[george graves]

It takes time to order, track, and store all the parts needed. Plus the capital they are out.

Have you ever stripped a car down? Cars EXPLODE in a body shop, one car can take up a HUGE amount of space - So do the new parts. Even if they are sitting on the shelf for only a day, you need that area to store them.

Now if you took a new hood to a shop and wanted it painted and installed, lets just say prep/paint/install was 3 hours. And they wanted to charge you more cause of they are NOT making the money on the sale of the part cause you sourced it, then no, they should only charge you the 3 hours...

[Midnight Sun]

its a business. there are administrative costs, bookwork, filing taxes etc etc. yes, they are in business to make money and they should mark shit up.

This hammers it down right on the head. People take forgranted how much it just costs to run an office, let alone the entire bodyshop attached to it. Fax machine ink, printer ink, copier ink and toner, paper, paper, paper, paper, pens, notepads, the monthly fee to continue to use our estimating systems and various programs....

I am a parts manager for a local bodyshop, so I will just pick a part your post. No disrespect, just alittle behind the scenes action.

I say no, and the reason is they are not incurring any storage, shelving, maintenance or any sort of fee's for the item that you actually NEED to have a markup for.

Not true, when we schedule a vehicle per the request of a given insurance company (or the super rare 'customer pay') we need to have all parts stocked before the vehicle comes in, this of course does not include supplement parts. So we have parts stocked for at least 1 to 2 weeks before the vehicle arrives.

Imagine our small shop, we bin all of our items. I bin 4 fenders and 3 bumpers, and then get faxed an insurance estimate for a rollover. Instantly, all my bins are full, I have currently binned parts that need to be reorganized, plus I need to find space for all other parts that may be coming in. To boot, supplement costs could total the vehicle, or it may never even show up, Which means i now I have to RETURN all said items.

A shop like Napa charges a mark up on parts because they sit of a shelf, in a store, that has expenses directly related to the sale of that item. a Body shop has no expenses directly related to a part they get for a customer car and therefore should not charge any sort of markup.

My labor itself in the inventory of parts is enough. A place likes napa gets a part in, it goes in its special assigned area of the store and that is it. They never end up over loaded with excess parts that are eventually going to be used, and dont have customers and insurance agencies asking them to order parts and then never showing up.

Plus, NAPA is a store that is designed to stock items. In our shop, room is at a premium, there are times we hardly have enough room to park all the vehicles inside every night. Napa never has to worry about having paint booths, frame racks, jig tables, forklifts, lifts, in their way all the time.

Perhaps they may mark it up slightly less than if someone came in and for some reason just wanted a fender to do themselves

Generally, we consider the money made off of parts jack shit compared to the money we make on labor. The money from parts, for our shop, is generally insurance, we barely make any money at all on paint and materials hourly. So for the occasion where a tint is off or there is defects in the base coat we can eat the repaint cost, make the customer happy and not suffer tragically as a shop.

As well, if a customer asks us to buy a part, we buy it, and they pick it up the day we it arrives. We usually do not mark it up at all, thanking them for their courtesy if anything else.

well what fucking expense do they have on a part that someone usually DELIVERS to them.

Yea... that is all fine and dandy. If you imagine one guy, ordering one headlamp, it arriving correct and in perfect condition... ON TIME.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I deal with at least 300 parts a week, for over a dozen different customers, every week I have to remember PO numbers, the new crop of cars, and manage all the different types of procedures per estimate according to insurance companies... Some allow LKQ, some dont, some are okay with non certified AM, others have to CAPA and NAACP, some just have to be CAPA.

I have to call in, fax, online order all these parts. Track them daily, sign for all of them (keep in mind I have to quality check all parts as they arrive for damage or we cannot return them). Sort them by PO, make sure the parts are correct for the estimate and then file the invoice... And this is all before the repairs have started.. Then I get to manage supplements, get approval by the insurance companies... Don't forget all the different deadlines and vendors. I can order Toyota from Tonkin, but Lexus. And Mazda parts I order from a different vendor than our Ford dealer.... Parts needed by next day need to be ordered before 1pm for Chrysler parts, but untill 5:30 by any Tonkin parts... The list goes on....

[george graves]

^^^^^

AWESOME reply.... hats off!!!!


With that. How do YOU feel about customer pay?

Can I post a follow up question? Customer pay has to be less then 10% of any b-shop biz.

Why is it that body shops look at "costumer pay" as gravy and not as a chance to build clients/respect?

Insurance should be your bread and butter - I just want to roll in a primered car for a re-spray. I've done the work - cut me some slack!!!!


(I might just slip a panter a $100 and then "rent" the booth after hours...Same paint - same car - same painter - but a grand less....)

[Julien]

It"s BOOSHES FAULT

[george graves]

It"s BOOSHES FAULT

Umm WHAT????

[Rigmaster]

Umm WHAT????

BOOSH is french for Bush...... Go EUROJulien!!! :P




Not sure what the point of this thread was, but the argument about the carpenter not charging their customer more for the wood to build the fence is BS.. Might be true on some small job where they use a few sticks of wood, but in most cases, they are making money on the materials- whether they list it as a line item or not- they're making something. It takes them time to order the materials, and in many cases they have to go to the lumber yard and pick the stuff up, so they should make $$ on it.

Same with the body shop. I'm not saying that I agree with the way Body shops handle their business- I think 90% of them are out to rip customers and insurance companies off. BUT, a large part of the problem is the way insurance companies pay (or try to NOT pay).....



Bret.

[Borat]

When you get a bid from a carpenter to build you a fence, does he buy the wood and then charge you more for it. HELL NO!! I used to work for a carpenter in the summer when i was younger.

Um, down here ALL tradesmen mark up supplies. They get trade prices and mark those up so the customer generally sees the same price anyway.

[trent]

1st off i work for an insurance company. We won't pay shops more than about 80/hr for paint work, and no more than 40-80/hr for labor work. All these places that charge 100, 120 per hour for labor are crazy because they are only ripping off individuals.

Also, i'm not talking a little "mark up". on a hood that I can find online for $200, a body shop should not be charging $385 for.

that is a HUGE markup. I just took off $700 off a repair bill that was submitted to me because a shop nearly doubled the price of some parts they were buying... I'm definitely reasonable, I can understand 10-15% markup.

sure you get a hood for $200 and want to charge $220 for it. FINE, but don't submit a bill to my desk for $385 and expect me to pay it.

So fucking what? WHy don't you learn how businesses actually operate. If there was no parts markup, none of these companies would be in business. Most business need at least 30% in order to make it worth it in the long run. You are an asshole for forcing them to 10-15%

[trent]

It's pretty much irrelevant because it is an industry practice and entrenched in the business model. Body work is young man's occupation and generally there are no benefits. A good body man will bill out 80 hours a week while working 40. Look around next time you're in one. You will rarely find a body man in his 40's. Body work is wrenching and craft. Painting is craft. I've worked in shops and for insurance companies. The irony is that they pay the same for mediocrity as they do for the best.

Maybe this is different in your area, but in the many many bodyshops I work with there are plenty of older guys late 30s-50s body guys.

[trent]

well what fucking expense do they have on a part that someone usually DELIVERS to them.

When you get a bid from a carpenter to build you a fence, does he buy the wood and then charge you more for it. HELL NO!! I used to work for a carpenter in the summer when i was younger.

You really show your ignorance for what is required to run a small business. And yes, around here, wood gets marked up. Cement gets marked up. Asphat, electrical, etc etc. This sometimes isn't "seen" as these profits are worked into the bid. That is how the world works.