Gun Thread

[naplesE30]

^ Man that sucks your handicapped by your own chief on what you can carry for duty. I would def choose a sbr or Tavor if I was in that line of work. The Israelis are prob the best versed people about clearing areas in close quarters, and I would copy their lead if I were allowed to choose.

I would use the delton in the meantime while your waiting for build components. It’s sounds like it may be a better alternative to your police issued rifle.

Does your department have an armorer that can tune up your dept issued rifle?

The saint rifles look to be pretty high quality, have you held/shot one yet? There prices have come down a bit recently and they are much more competitively priced now with the big brand makers like colt, s&w, ruger, and sig.

[TeXJ]

I wouldn't mind getting a Saint in a pistol to later sbr.

[eternal24k]

good god, the idea of having my life depend on a Delton is unnerving.

I would get an account with DSG Arms, I believe they have a LE discount (i know they do a solid mil discount) and carry good products.

[Ryan...]

^ Man that sucks your handicapped by your own chief on what you can carry for duty. I would def choose a sbr or Tavor if I was in that line of work. The Israelis are prob the best versed people about clearing areas in close quarters, and I would copy their lead if I were allowed to choose.

I would use the delton in the meantime while your waiting for build components. It’s sounds like it may be a better alternative to your police issued rifle.

Does your department have an armorer that can tune up your dept issued rifle?

The saint rifles look to be pretty high quality, have you held/shot one yet? There prices have come down a bit recently and they are much more competitively priced now with the big brand makers like colt, s&w, ruger, and sig.

It's very annoying, he was also against outer vest carriers because people might have thought they looked scary. Never mind the fact that we can take weight off our hips, move stuff off our lower backs, stay cooler in the summer, etc....

Our armorer is pretty new, it's a just a Sgt they sent to a 5 day school to get a basic certification. He's pretty knowledgeable, he shot the Deltons before the Chief determined they would be our new guns, he said they "seemed ok" and that they were cheap, and should be adequate. Not exactly a glowing review from a guy that owns 5+ high quality ARs..

I shot and loved the Saint. I went through the process of researching them and submitting a proposal to buy one, which Chief denied for no reason..

I wouldn't mind getting a Saint in a pistol to later sbr.

I'm tempted to just buy the SBR and see what happens when I show up with it...

good god, the idea of having my life depend on a Delton is unnerving.

I would get an account with DSG Arms, I believe they have a LE discount (i know they do a solid mil discount) and carry good products.

Is there a reason you feel that strongly about the Delton? I'm legit asking, I haven't read really anything positive/negative about them. Mine has been sitting, half built, at the PD for months now..

[Rob]

I'm going to jump in as I've drank the P&S kool-aid. I loved my del-ton...as a range toy. It worked great in that setting, accurate, reliable, etc etc. I think you can say the same for a lot more of the more value oriented ARs. The market has come a long way in the last 20 years when there was Colt, and there was crap. I'm sure you can build a $40 Anderson lower with $300 PSA build kit and totally be fine.

That being said, I am not sworn or .mil, so my requirements are way different. Personally, if I was actually supposed to seek out danger, I'd want the best rifle I could afford and was approved. Sons of Liberty (actually not that expensive!), BCM, DD, Knights, etc etc. The QC that goes into those is just higher, and the performance and longevity will be better as a result.

Bigger picture, I think its a f-ing tragedy that the people that keep me and my family safe are hamstrung by leadership that is so focused on money, that the tools they depend on are chosen not by performance or quality, but mainly by price.

[Mediumrarechicken]

It's very annoying, he was also against outer vest carriers because people might have thought they looked scary. Never mind the fact that we can take weight off our hips, move stuff off our lower backs, stay cooler in the summer, etc....

Our armorer is pretty new, it's a just a Sgt they sent to a 5 day school to get a basic certification. He's pretty knowledgeable, he shot the Deltons before the Chief determined they would be our new guns, he said they "seemed ok" and that they were cheap, and should be adequate. Not exactly a glowing review from a guy that owns 5+ high quality ARs..

I shot and loved the Saint. I went through the process of researching them and submitting a proposal to buy one, which Chief denied for no reason..



I'm tempted to just buy the SBR and see what happens when I show up with it...



Is there a reason you feel that strongly about the Delton? I'm legit asking, I haven't read really anything positive/negative about them. Mine has been sitting, half built, at the PD for months now..

Delton is bottom of the barrel, I'm pretty sure they dont make a single part so that means they are sourcing the cheapest they can find because Bob wont put more than 2000 rounds through the gun. Bob doesnt know that the bolt he has isnt made with the correct steel, that the gas block is slowly eroding away with every shot because it's a low grade aluminum, and that service life of springs and wear parts isnt the same as what the military states in the TDP. That said I'm not even a high speed dude that needs to have an ar for work and I'll never own a delton gun.

Your chief is an idiot. Maybe you can dig up some info on the differences between low and high end ar15's and how sbr's(especially when chambered in 300blk since the powder is fully burnt in an 8.5" barrel unlike a 5.56) are a much better choice in close quarters and get in with him for a one on one to tell him of your concern.

[Ryan...]

I'm going to jump in as I've drank the P&S kool-aid. I loved my del-ton...as a range toy. It worked great in that setting, accurate, reliable, etc etc. I think you can say the same for a lot more of the more value oriented ARs. The market has come a long way in the last 20 years when there was Colt, and there was crap. I'm sure you can build a $40 Anderson lower with $300 PSA build kit and totally be fine.

That being said, I am not sworn or .mil, so my requirements are way different. Personally, if I was actually supposed to seek out danger, I'd want the best rifle I could afford and was approved. Sons of Liberty (actually not that expensive!), BCM, DD, Knights, etc etc. The QC that goes into those is just higher, and the performance and longevity will be better as a result.

Bigger picture, I think its a f-ing tragedy that the people that keep me and my family safe are hamstrung by leadership that is so focused on money, that the tools they depend on are chosen not by performance or quality, but mainly by price.

I'm definitely researching more options now, I've looked at a couple of the BCM rifles that looked really nice. Sig has some really good LEO discounts as well.

Turns out my Sgt had a critical malfunction with his Saint last week, ended up having to take a hammer to the charging handle after a live round was stuck inside the gun.

I think what I'll do now is buy my quality Vortex optics (40-50% off for LEOs), streamlight light, and foregrip. Install those parts on the Delton, then swap them over to whatever higher quality rifle I can get next..

Delton is bottom of the barrel, I'm pretty sure they dont make a single part so that means they are sourcing the cheapest they can find because Bob wont put more than 2000 rounds through the gun. Bob doesnt know that the bolt he has isnt made with the correct steel, that the gas block is slowly eroding away with every shot because it's a low grade aluminum, and that service life of springs and wear parts isnt the same as what the military states in the TDP. That said I'm not even a high speed dude that needs to have an ar for work and I'll never own a delton gun.

Your chief is an idiot. Maybe you can dig up some info on the differences between low and high end ar15's and how sbr's(especially when chambered in 300blk since the powder is fully burnt in an 8.5" barrel unlike a 5.56) are a much better choice in close quarters and get in with him for a one on one to tell him of your concern.

^^ very good points, just because it works well enough now (with less than 14 rounds through it, doesn't mean it's going to be the same story 1400 rounds later, or when I'm doing another OK Corral reenactment at 6:15 AM on a random Sunday :rofl

I might just go ahead and apply for my SBR stamp (if I even need it, being I'm a sworn LEO, using it for work..) then try my hand at selling the Chief on the benefits of having them on patrol.

***

My biggest issue right now is budget.. For our first rifles we were allowed to take payroll deductions: PD pays for the rifle then deducts like $20/paycheck until the rifle is paid off. I blew mine on a $400 Delton because that's what Chief said we needed to buy, then my coworkers got to spend $900-$1800 on theirs using the same payroll deductions Now if I want another rifle I'm still stuck with this Delton that I can't sell because its number is tied to the PD, and I'll have to pay out of pocket for a quality rifle.

Typically that wouldn't be too big of an issue, but I got an E30 project car taking money, Ducati taking money, don't even get me started on the RR, and I need to save some more money for an engagement ring too..

[Rob]

I need to save some more money for an engagement ring too..

My lovely wife, the mother of our beautiful kids, really loves wearing my M3 on her finger


On topic, if I was choosing a new stick for actual, real use, and had LE creds, https://sonsoflibertygunworks.com/co...nt=18765156865 all day long. I've listened to the company owner in multiple interviews, and he really gives a chit about QC, and the good guys that use their stuff. 10% discount it looks like for LEO? Not huge but something.

On a seperate note, I found a dremel at work, so I snagged that and will commence on one of the plastic pistols. I'm sure hilarity will ensue!

[Ryan...]

My lovely wife, the mother of our beautiful kids, really loves wearing my M3 on her finger


On topic, if I was choosing a new stick for actual, real use, and had LE creds, https://sonsoflibertygunworks.com/co...nt=18765156865 all day long. I've listened to the company owner in multiple interviews, and he really gives a chit about QC, and the good guys that use their stuff. 10% discount it looks like for LEO? Not huge but something.

On a seperate note, I found a dremel at work, so I snagged that and will commence on one of the plastic pistols. I'm sure hilarity will ensue!

Thankfully this one is very understanding of my vehicle/motorcycle/gun addictions, but I think she'll want a little shiny ring :rofl

Those rifle does look legit, and 10% is no joke, it all helps!

[Mediumrarechicken]

My lovely wife, the mother of our beautiful kids, really loves wearing my M3 on her finger


On topic, if I was choosing a new stick for actual, real use, and had LE creds, https://sonsoflibertygunworks.com/co...nt=18765156865 all day long. I've listened to the company owner in multiple interviews, and he really gives a chit about QC, and the good guys that use their stuff. 10% discount it looks like for LEO? Not huge but something.

On a seperate note, I found a dremel at work, so I snagged that and will commence on one of the plastic pistols. I'm sure hilarity will ensue!

That's a DAMN good price for that gun, I'd go with this one more so just because I'm a bigger fan of magpul products and I'm really digging the handguard since it is a little longer and goes over the fsb. The prices for the addons is really good too, like a raptor charging handle for 45 bucks, a lantec dragon for 115
And ep3 coated bcg for 60. That makes for one hell of a patrol rifle for $244 more https://sonsoflibertygunworks.com/co...nt=10455647553


I just saw that songs of liberty gave the man that stopped the guy that shot up the church in texas a new rifle because he likely wont be getting his back. This is a company that really is checking all the boxes on build quality and I'm learning that they are really good people. I dont need another ar15, but I'm quickly thinking I'll make an exception for these guys.

[Ryan...]

^^ I've sent them an email inquiring about the LEO program :)

[Rob]

Giving credit where it is due: anyone that is .mil, LEO, into firearms, etc, should give Primary & Secondary a listen. Its an information source run by critical thinking folks and really puts out good info to counter so much of the derp on the web. They have great podcasts and FB groups, covering everything, duty rifles, dealing with bureaucracy, emergency medicine, CCW, competitions, and on and on. "Roland" of Roland Special fame is one of their guys (which is a whole other topic), just as an example.

https://facebook.com/primaryandsecondary

http://primaryandsecondary.com/

[eternal24k]

As mentioned, Del-ton has a horrible track record with parts sourcing. I have seen a couple low round count with broken bolts, crappy bolt catches that break, and out of spec chambers blowing primers like crazy.
It's just that these days you can get such a good quality AR for practically the same price, so why risk it? Colt, DD, Sionics, SOLGW (as mentioned above), BCM, LMT, etc. The list goes on.

[acolella76]

I might just go ahead and apply for my SBR stamp (if I even need it, being I'm a sworn LEO, using it for work..) then try my hand at selling the Chief on the benefits of having them on patrol.

Personally I think it would be hilarious if you showed up with a pistol AR instead of an SBR

[TeXJ]

i want a pistol ar with the new sba3 pistol brace.