Gun Thread

[Hawk]

I'm with Rob on this one, I've shot H&Ks and didn't find them to shoot any more accurately or perform any more reliably than my Glocks. As a matter of fact, the H&K, especially the Mk23, are larger frame handguns which are bulky and not "practical" to handle in PD situations. IIRC, and don't quote me on this, but I seem to remember reading that the Seal teams don't even use the Mk23 anymore because of it's large size.

You are correct bout the 23 thats why the Usp tactical was built (gun under it). Im not going to get into the Glock vs HK war here. But ask any gun smith the glocks are built with whats called an unsupported chamber and if you use a lot of +p rounds or have a hot round the gun will go kaboom (the usp was tested to 28,000 +ps and only thing that failed was a firing pin). For reference you dont wanna shoot more that 500 rds of +p through a 1911. Ive seen it happen 2 times personaly and both times the shooters hands were cut and hurt and one needed stitched as the polymer frame grenaded. I have also seen an HK do it with a double charged round but the clip blew out and the shooter was unharmed and continued shooting his other pistols. Once again I wont argue the HK glock thing. But the fact is glock offers huge incentives to police to use thier guns my uncle is state patrol and he got 35% off his gun and glock sends him all kinds of crap. Hk gives no discounts to anyone so they are not used as much. I agree glocks function just as reliably with standard ammo as HK, but have a design flaw. The insiders are saying glock is redesigning thier chamber for this years pistols. My tactical is very accurate I would urge you glock owners to set a target up at 100 yards and see what you can hit I put 4-6 rounds on a paper plate off hand. I do not believe that accuracy is obtanible with a glock. The reason I choose HK is feel and match grade componets the tact has match o-ring barrel, trigger, adj sights etc all from factory. Also the military is now being issued the HK45 they have never been issued glocks ever. http://www.gunsandammomag.com/ga_han...07/index1.html

Happy 4th all!

[Vedubin01]

This test was preformed by Bigbore (Ar15.com member) from Adco Firearms. I would like to see anyone run their non glocks through this same test and say that their gun still fires! Glocks are ugly and not built with metal. But for a gun to fall back on I would trust my life with a Glock over any other handgun for SHTF.

http://www.theprepared.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=90&Item

[atomic]

Didnt have the nerve to shoot at it more with the .22 affraid of hitting the frame ? Damn how could you have the nerve to do that to your gun period BUT it shows why they are so dependable

[Vedubin01]

Bigbore is one of the owners of Adco. Adco is a great place to do business and works hand in hand designing weapons for local law and military. They hold some of the top sniping records and are cool enough to do tests on product such as the Glock torture test!

[LINUS]

I won't even touch the issue of Glock reliability, they are known as a great gun with a lot of people I know, and I personally don't have enough personal experience with them to say either way.

My question is if you Glock owners think as I do that the grip is at a more forward angle than any other handgun, thereby making it feel like the barrel sits further forward?

I've only had a half-dozen Glocks in hand, and shot less than a hundred rounds on the same one on 2 occasions, but the gun geometry just seemed odd, and with the barrel in a (perceived??) pitched forward position, it seemed like it would take longer to reset for doubletaps to me.

Like I said, not bashing on Glock - just wondering if you guys felt the same the 1st time you picked one up, and if you just plain get over it with a lot of lane time.

[Rob]

I guess I'm one of the lucky chosen few, the glock grip works with my hand. XDs, M&P, H&K, none feel as good or natural. 1911s point high until I've re-familiarized with it. Considering I've done ~90% of my pistol shooting for the last year with a Glock of some sort, yeah, I'm used to the angle. The fact that mine have been as close to 100% reliable as practically possible, more accurate than I am, and have plentiful full capacity mags available for less than $20 (HK folks should take pause here...) is icing on the cake. Honestly I don't mind the looks, and when it comes down to it, anyone that sees it outside of the range probably won't be worried about how it looks...


If [insert whatever make/model here] works for whoever, thats fine, i'll never try to convince you otherwise. My tupperwear works for me, so I'm fine as long as people don't try to tell me my Glocks suck and I should replace them with XYZ because they said so.

BTW- I've never had a single issue with Glock's supposed poor case support, even with hot subgun 9mm and +P .45 ACP.

[LINUS]

I'm not a plastic basher either - I been looking at a Sig 2022 as a "next gun" - and if the plastics hadn't held up, there wouldn't be people buying Glock anymore - haven't they been around ~20 years now?

I don't even think I heard of issues with the 1st gen Glocks - were there any.

Plastics have come a long way for everything - Heck, my Honda lawnmower is a plastic deck, and from what I hear it should outlast the motor. 5-6 years on it so far, and it barely looks broken in.

Plastic isn't an issue to me, I just had 1911's, and a 226, so I've just been used to the more "right angle" handgun geometry so far.

Oh, and I have a Keltec 9mm, and it's plastic - but I hardly shoot it, it's more of a "gunsafe ornament".

Pure asthetics of a gun aren't anything to me either - I like pretty guns like anyone, but I wouldn't begin to say looks matter at all when it comes to a good functioning gun you might need in a bad situation.

Has anyone here had the same experience as me & made a transition over to Glock and gone on to like it better?
I hear great things about them, I just so far in my minimal experience haven't felt comfortable - that barrel really seems hanging off the end of my hand.

I wish I could like the Glocks, but comfortability is a draw with reliability to me.

[Vedubin01]

Glocks are like golf clubs. Un Natural to swing, but once you get that swing you can drive the piss out of a ball. That said glocks are not comfortable guns. I have to use a modified Hogue grip. But once that grip feels more natural, Glocks are really hard to beat in speed, weight, round count, and reliability. (I use this on a Gen 3 Glock http://www.hogueinc.com/getgrip/merc...tid=114&step=4


In every Gun school Ive taken one does not hold a gun hand over hand. You lose stability in shooting. But if your right handed, your left hand thumb is pointed down the slide of the barrel and your fingers are folded around your right hand.

[Rob]

The Glock 17 first came to the US in 1984 I think? No widespread problems reported until they came out with other higher pressure calibers, combined with the popularity of internet forums.

I use an aggressive thumbs forward grip, and since I'm left handed, that has me pressing out slide stop pins on 1911s, and messing with controls on other types.

[LINUS]

I'm naturally a leftie too - so it's good to hear from a leftie on this.

G - when you say "hand over hand" - does that mean when as a leftie I have my last 3 fingers on the grip, and my right hand cupping under the mag and up around my last few fingers?

Gun school sounds like a good idea - I've kept toying with the idea of bringing 300-ish rounds and renting my local range's Glock to see if I can't shoot around the comfort thing - the few times I've had one in my hands I kept shooting high, barely keeping it on the paper at the 3rd position on the inside lanes (~45'?), and it made me almost doubt myself until I picked back up a 1911. I realize the average pistol encounter is 1/2 the distance or less than where I was on the lanes, just using that as an example of how far out I was.

I like the idea of gun lessons though - I might have to see what's available locally, and if they train with a Glock. I've never had a real lesson, that sounds like a good time.

[Rob]

real legit training is a fantastic investment, well worth whatever the cost. I'd rather spend $1000 on a quality class and case of ammo than whatever new gee-whiz gun.

I'm taking a class from Scott Warren in Sept :D

[LINUS]

Stovepiping? - Not a term I'm familiar with? Anyone?

Roger that on 357sig - that's what I got my 226 in, and if I could find a 2022 available at a decent price I'd be signing papers. I know some don't think it's a round that answers a need, but with prudent shopping and planning ahead I find so far that I can shoot it for nearly the same cost as 40s&w. And I just plain like it.

But I'm sure since I'm self taught, and reading a few books & internet about proper overall shooting, I'm sure I could use some refinement in what I'm doing.

[Rob]

atomic- no offense, but your 1911 is broken. A well built and tuned 1911 should be just as reliable as any other pistol. What make/model? Mags? Ammo?

[Rob]

Ah, a baby, the plot thickens. I still hold it should run better than that. Is that a .40? The only experience I have with the baby 1911s is a Micro Compact and Ultra Compact, both .45 from Springfield Armory, and both have been great. The short slide 1911s are more susceptible to issues, with high slide speeds, short links, and much less tolerance for improper tolerances compared to the 4-5" guns.

What you describe really sounds like a mag issue, with the feed lips spreading open too much, allowing the extra round to try to feed.....hmmmmm

www.forum.m1911.org for all your needs!

You sent it to the factory and they said they were happy with a 50 round window? I thought ParaOrd had better customer service than that!

[atomic]

It is chambered in .45 and that is what they tell me. They said the way the gun is designed is just gets very dirty very quick and the build up is what is still causing the problems. Yeah it is a baby 1911 but the compacts are easier to use a carry piece.