gay marriage

[blunttech]

maybe another way of saying that could have been; "while we are in agreement on this issue, stop making us look bad."

its hard to know who youre talking to

[Belteshazzar]

its hard to know who youre talking to

sorry.

[browntown]

when i was a kid we said the pledge of alligance (sp)? every morning in school.
now because of the words "one nation under god" you cant do that anymore. its fucking ridiculous.

If you're old as you claim you'll know that the "under god" bit was added in the cold war because of the perceived threat of the "godless commies". It wasn't there in the first place. Eisenhower had it added out of a misguided attempt to thwart the spread of socialism.

Now, substitute under Allah in there and I think most people would be outraged. The capital God is a direct reference to a judeo-christian tradition of a monotheistic supreme being. Why should I, living in a free country, be under the impression that my country has freedom of religion, but only if it falls in there preference. Are you essentially saying fuck the buddhists, we're mostly christian so I don't care? Selfish.

This country was built on freedoms, freedom of religion being paramount. It was not found on being a puritan colony. And even if it was, a lot has changed for the good in the past 250 years. The people that hold on to the "framer's" view so dearly must want slavery back, and women to lose the vote.

Certainly most of the amendments that have followed have been good (with the exception of the federal income tax)

[Purdue89E30]

Who came here first to settle?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilgrims

Pretty sure it was Christians(Protestant) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant

And then those people were raised in a Christian Society...

Though it might not be "christian country" it was first settled and populated by Christians who had Children... Eventually yes it was the "land of the free" and "America Dream" and we have everything now. But originally.... Christian.


Getting kind of humorous now. I agree with Wes though... My personal opinion is it is "just wrong" and that is how I feel. It is my opinion which is what it is...

Actually it was first settled and populated by Native Americans, not Christians. By your reasoning Britain should be considered a druid nation and Italy would be polytheistic. So what if many of the people that started the country happened to be Christian (Though Jefferson was considered a deist and Ben Franklin attended black masses)? It seems to me that the founding fathers went out of their way to keep religion out of the new government and rely instead on something called "reason".

[Emre]

I'm currently writing a paper on this subject that must either support or refute the rights of gays to marry using only the constitution and current laws to support my position.

Using the Constitution, this is a piece of cake. Here's your abstract:

The US Constitution was specifically written to protect the rights of the individual against the State. The framers of the Constitution witnessed first-hand the abuses of a tyrannical government and set out to specifically limit government intrusion on the private lives of the citizenry. The Amendments tell you exactly what kinds of civil liberties they were concerned about: the right to privacy, self-defense, religion, congregation, speech, etc. are specifically protected. But, above all, privacy and freedom from government intrusion in personal affairs is guaranteed.

That's it, really. Obviously, the Founding Fathers had nothing to say about homosexuality, gay marriage, abortion, recreational drug use, etc. since these things were not politically "hot topics" at the time. But it's clear both in the letter and the spirit of the Constitution that the government should butt out of people's private lives.

HTH,

Emre

[blunttech]

If you're old as you claim you'll know that the "under god" bit was added in the cold war because of the perceived threat of the "godless commies". It wasn't there in the first place. Eisenhower had it added out of a misguided attempt to thwart the spread of socialism.

Now, substitute under Allah in there and I think most people would be outraged. The capital God is a direct reference to a judeo-christian tradition of a monotheistic supreme being. Why should I, living in a free country, be under the impression that my country has freedom of religion, but only if it falls in there preference. Are you essentially saying fuck the buddhists, we're mostly christian so I don't care? Selfish.

This country was built on freedoms, freedom of religion being paramount. It was not found on being a puritan colony. And even if it was, a lot has changed for the good in the past 250 years. The people that hold on to the "framer's" view so dearly must want slavery back, and women to lose the vote.

Certainly most of the amendments that have followed have been good (with the exception of the federal income tax)

i guess it depends on what your "god" is. you can worship the head of my cock and call it god if you like. god to me doesnt have to be jesus christ. its merely a higher power than myself to me.

[Emre]

It seems to me that the founding fathers went out of their way to keep religion out of the new government and rely instead on something called "reason".

That's true. The Constitution was clearly written by people who bought into the Enlightenment. They believed that human beings were basically good ("community-minded egoists") and could rely on Reason to solve their problems. Further, they basically plagiarized Enlightenment thinkers such as Cesare Beccaria (compare the wording of the Constitutional Amendments with Beccaria's "Of Crimes and Punishments").

It's sad to see how far modern America has moved away from these libertarian ideals. Jefferson would turn over in his grave if he could see how badly our civil liberties have eroded in the name of "safety."

Emre

[matt]

That's true. The Constitution was clearly written by people who bought into the Enlightenment. They believed that human beings were basically good ("community-minded egoists") and could rely on Reason to solve their problems. Further, they basically plagiarized Enlightenment thinkers such as Cesare Beccaria (compare the wording of the Constitutional Amendments with Beccaria's "Of Crimes and Punishments").

It's sad to see how far modern America has moved away from these libertarian ideals. Jefferson would turn over in his grave if he could see how badly our civil liberties have eroded in the name of "safety."

Emre

I quoted Jefferson two pages ago and nobody bothered reading it.

[Purdue89E30]

I read it man, it was good

[whakiewes]

"My kid won't be gay, I won't allow it. I will hire him 1000's of hookers before he touches anothers dick, case closed"

seriously man, you should not be allowed to procreate and you will make one shitty parent. please do the world a favor and dont fuck up another child. if your kid is born with down syndrome will you throw him to the wolves>?? you are just as fucking stupid as i remember you from all the bubble car posts. please kill yourself before you have any children

Man chill out. Everyone was having a no sense pissing match, so I threw in. If my kid 'chooses' to be homosexual, I will deal with it. I firmly believe though that through proper child raising, my child won't be. I differ from what you may believe to be the 'ideal' parent in that I don't believe in giving my child everything in the world and allowing them to do what they want. I grew up in a strict family with tons of morals and support, as did all of my friends. My child will grow up the same, and in my opinion if he is half as good as me then I have done my job. I know that my children are above all, which is also why I won't have a wife that works when we have kids. There are millions of bad parents in this country having kids everyday; I won't be one of them. If I don't feel I am financially or physically able to raise my child like I want, then I won't have children until I am able. If you knew me personally, you would know that the welfare of my children will be my first priority, as it was when I was raised. Although there is no 'evidence' to support my theory, I still believe that thorugh proper child raising my kid will grow up with strong morals and form his/her own beliefs. If they differ from mine, but they formed them with thought and reason, then I am accepting of that. Don't throw the 'genetically' they are gay card at me until YOU can prove THAT.

As to the bubble car, like most others, you read into the wrong details. There was a select group of people who honestly thought that a 12k mile car was a pristine example. There were tons of issues when that car was purchased which resulted in the modifications. Had I been the purchaser, it would have remained stock. As a matter, I would have never purchased the car. The certain group of people that Q-Tipped the car felt that it was ruined, but the car was never meant to be a museum piece. There was a reason BMW Mobile Tradition never offered more than $15k for it ;) . If you feel though like others that the only mint example of an E30 M3 was ruined, then so be it. The following owner tracked it for 5k miles before blowing the engine. Since then there has been a 3000 mile, 7000 mile, and a known <1000 mile example come for sale. If it matters any though, I sold the car in less than 48hrs :) for exactly what was in the car, no loss. I am not as 'stupid' as you assume I am.

Wes

[decay]

I quoted Jefferson two pages ago and nobody bothered reading it.

yeah, tell me about it.

from page 4:

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showpost.php?p=863657&postcount=59

[ejnight]

A union between a man and a woman. end of story. they can have the tax and medical benefits , but not marriage.

[blunttech]

Man chill out. Everyone was having a no sense pissing match, so I threw in. If my kid 'chooses' to be homosexual, I will deal with it. I firmly believe though that through proper child raising, my child won't be. I differ from what you may believe to be the 'ideal' parent in that I don't believe in giving my child everything in the world and allowing them to do what they want. I grew up in a strict family with tons of morals and support, as did all of my friends. My child will grow up the same, and in my opinion if he is half as good as me then I have done my job. I know that my children are above all, which is also why I won't have a wife that works when we have kids. There are millions of bad parents in this country having kids everyday; I won't be one of them. If I don't feel I am financially or physically able to raise my child like I want, then I won't have children until I am able. If you knew me personally, you would know that the welfare of my children will be my first priority, as it was when I was raised. Although there is no 'evidence' to support my theory, I still believe that thorugh proper child raising my kid will grow up with strong morals and form his/her own beliefs. If they differ from mine, but they formed them with thought and reason, then I am accepting of that. Don't throw the 'genetically' they are gay card at me until YOU can prove THAT.

As to the bubble car, like most others, you read into the wrong details. There was a select group of people who honestly thought that a 12k mile car was a pristine example. There were tons of issues when that car was purchased which resulted in the modifications. Had I been the purchaser, it would have remained stock. As a matter, I would have never purchased the car. The certain group of people that Q-Tipped the car felt that it was ruined, but the car was never meant to be a museum piece. There was a reason BMW Mobile Tradition never offered more than $15k for it ;) . If you feel though like others that the only mint example of an E30 M3 was ruined, then so be it. The following owner tracked it for 5k miles before blowing the engine. Since then there has been a 3000 mile, 7000 mile, and a known <1000 mile example come for sale. If it matters any though, I sold the car in less than 48hrs :) for exactly what was in the car, no loss. I am not as 'stupid' as you assume I am.

Wes

i wont rehash the bubble car or the M2 but ill tell you that im fairly well connected in the bmw world and i heard stories about both. end of story. i railed on your for the stupid comment about you not accepting your kid if he or she is gay. thats the most retarded thing ive ever heard. it seems that with every member lost they are replaced with someone of the same caliber. you are the new jscotty

[whakiewes]

i wont rehash the bubble car or the M2 but ill tell you that im fairly well connected in the bmw world and i heard stories about both. end of story. i railed on your for the stupid comment about you not accepting your kid if he or she is gay. thats the most retarded thing ive ever heard. it seems that with every member lost they are replaced with someone of the same caliber. you are the new jscotty

Unfortunately, I think you are wrong, but to each their own. People in the know are just that, in the know. They have no involvement and contribute nothing. They take the middle road, listen, and allow others to form their opinions. If you had 'known' the bubble car or the M2, you would have known what happened to them. Rather you 'heard' or 'read' certain things, and judged your opinions from that. Fact of the matter is that Bossert still talks to the buyer of the bubble car and M2 on a weekly basis, in fact they have traded many more cars. Again, there is a strong difference between being in the 'know' and taking a physical part of the transactions. Don't throw cards that can't be played.

I don't agree with homosexuality, and my children will know that I don't. My children will know a lot more that I don't agree with. They will form their own opinions, but I refuse to let a teacher tell them whether homosexuality is right or wrong, or if they should choose between the two. Until you can 'PROVE' that homosexuality is genetic or other, IMO its a choice.

Wes

[blunttech]

Unfortunately, I think you are wrong, but to each their own. People in the know are just that, in the know. They have no involvement and contribute nothing. They take the middle road, listen, and allow others to form their opinions. If you had 'known' the bubble car or the M2, you would have known what happened to them. Rather you 'heard' or 'read' certain things, and judged your opinions from that. Fact of the matter is that Bossert still talks to the buyer of the bubble car and M2 on a weekly basis, in fact they have traded many more cars. Again, there is a strong difference between being in the 'know' and taking a physical part of the transactions. Don't throw cards that can't be played.

I don't agree with homosexuality, and my children will know that I don't. My children will know a lot more that I don't agree with. They will form their own opinions, but I refuse to let a teacher tell them whether homosexuality is right or wrong, or if they should choose between the two. Until you can 'PROVE' that homosexuality is genetic or other, IMO its a choice.

Wes

youre pretty full of yourself wes. you make assumptions when you know nothing. i react to what i read and you sound like a pompous asswipe
"My child will grow up the same, and in my opinion if he is half as good as me then I have done my job."
that statement says it all
"I differ from what you may believe to be the 'ideal' parent in that I don't believe in giving my child everything in the world and allowing them to do what they want."
what do you know about my parenting beliefs and where did you pull that statement from ?? your ass??

you are a complete asshat. of course this isnt anything you havent heard a million times. youre a laughing stock on every board ive been on
eat a narcissistic dick