Global Warming: What do you think? What do you know?

[rwh11385]

I have no problem with ethanol... I just think that the resources/shifts/etc neeed to make it truly viable may NOT be viable unless a LOT of people begin to think that way. I don't think we need a lot of things in Gov., but none of it will ever go away unless a LOT of people see it that way - you know?

It's got to start somewhere. Unless the solution is to keep constantly relying on a depleting resource with rising prices. Bridging to renewable technologies may NOT be as easy we the status quo or even possibly as cheap (let's hope in the long run) but when will people start caring? They are already whining about gas prices, but don't want to do ANYTHING about it but bitch... WTF?

[Farbin Kaiber]

We also have a lot of people being unemployed by globalization and people whining about not having a job in X industry. Seems like there is labor supply. Sure they need to be re-trained but better than not working at all. And I doubt there is no land that cannot be used at all in this large country that has states the size of other nations.

So are we just to continue to shift our country to employment to slackers with no dedication? And wonder why Indians can take our shippable jobs?

And what's wrong with making ethanol? Seems to make a lot more sense to diversify our energy supply than rely on the same old OPEC.

So I should take my service industry skills and since i'm on unemployment I should farm e85?

[rwh11385]

We have changed to a service oriented economy, and as such our society has moved that way as well. Have you worked with irrigation? farming equipment? It's hard ass work. It takes physical strength, dedication, and time. Most people in this society aren't willing to do that - and certainly not on the basis of making ehtanol.

I respect your POV and know you're a smart guy, but I just think you're lacking some realism here.

We also have a lot of people being unemployed by globalization and people whining about not having a job in X industry. Seems like there is labor supply. Sure they need to be re-trained but better than not working at all. And I doubt there is no land that cannot be used at all in this large country that has states the size of other nations.

So are we just to continue to shift our country to employment to slackers with no dedication? And wonder why Indians can take our shippable jobs?

And what's wrong with making ethanol? Seems to make a lot more sense to diversify our energy supply than rely on the same old OPEC.

[uofom3]

so you're saying if there is a growing demand for agricultural products, NO ONE will start using ANYMORE LAND? There will be absolutely no one to come in and enter the industry? The ONLY way corn or any other bioenergy crop can be produced is by taking away resources from something else???

That's a strong assumption. (and only feasibly used in the short run)

You might as well run around with your hands over your ears like most and yell ETHANOL IS BADDDDD! EVILL!!! because that's about as much as a lot of people are doing when it comes to the subject.

I have no problem with ethanol... I just think that the resources/shifts/etc neeed to make it truly viable may NOT be viable unless a LOT of people begin to think that way. I don't think we need a lot of things in Gov., but none of it will ever go away unless a LOT of people see it that way - you know?

[rwh11385]

Nope not what I was getting at. What I am getting at is that 95% of the farms in this country dont have the financial where with all, to acquire the needed land resources period, let alone still have the ability to work the ground in a manner that would yield a positive net monetary gain.

more demand = higher prices = more incentive to invest

unless of course it's impossible for anyone to want to deal with farming.

now if the only thing people are doing is shifting resources to corn or other crops, yes, prices will rise for milk, beef, bread, beer, etc. but that's an assumption i won't make

[uofom3]

That's great, but look at the shift in the society/economy.

We are not an agrarian society, you know that. Saying that more people could farm is like saying that teens should stop having sex; they could, but they won't.

We have changed to a service oriented economy, and as such our society has moved that way as well. Have you worked with irrigation? farming equipment? It's hard ass work. It takes physical strength, dedication, and time. Most people in this society aren't willing to do that - and certainly not on the basis of making ehtanol.

I respect your POV and know you're a smart guy, but I just think you're lacking some realism here.

[Farbin Kaiber]

There is no reason to even get into anything with you because you pull out all the little kid stops, the things normal adults do not bring to the table durring a debate.


Blah, Blah, Blah..... You wear pink undies... Blah, blah.

How fucking childish.

[mrsleeve]

Nope not what I was getting at. What I am getting at is that 95% of the farms in this country dont have the financial where with all, to acquire the needed land resources period, let alone still have the ability to work the ground in a manner that would yield a positive net monetary gain.

[Farbin Kaiber]

What big picture are you seeing smoking that Green?

You'd rather have realworld automotive knowledge and be unemployed?

Does weed make you disbelieve the government?

First, I never brought your obvious admitted collegate drinking issues into this discussion. I feel those personal items hold no bearing on the topic at hand.

Yes, because with the knowledge, when a job comes up I am qualified. If I didn't have it I'd be working at McDonalds.

No, people like you do.

[rwh11385]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

hey dumb shit if it cost you 12k an acer to buy thats 1.2m per 100ac no farmer can swing that or if it costs you 75k a year to lease 500ac from the city slicker that bought it to hunt phesant on an just sits that wont make you any profits either.

thus why farming is on the down trun

so you're saying if there is a growing demand for agricultural products, NO ONE will start using ANYMORE LAND? There will be absolutely no one to come in and enter the industry? The ONLY way corn or any other bioenergy crop can be produced is by taking away resources from something else???

That's a strong assumption. (and only feasibly used in the short run)

You might as well run around with your hands over your ears like most and yell ETHANOL IS BADDDDD! EVILL!!! because that's about as much as a lot of people are doing when it comes to the subject.

[rwh11385]

in the 50's you could live on 7k a year,

Can you live on 7k a year now. Shit I eat that up in 5 months just paying the bills.

well, that's inflation for you

7k x 1.03 ^ 60 = 41,000 and that avoids a lot of the stagflation era just assuming 3%

besides, just because a household farms does not mean it cannot work off-farm as well... in fact the majority does


Off-farm income/work:
1930
30 percent of farmers worked off farm for an average of 100 days
1945
27 percent of farmers worked off farm
1970
54 percent of households had off-farm income
2002
93 percent of households had off-farm income

[mrsleeve]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

hey dumb shit if it cost you 12k an acer to buy thats 1.2m per 100ac no farmer can swing that or if it costs you 75k a year to lease 500ac from the city slicker that bought it to hunt phesant on an just sits that wont make you any profits either.

thus why farming is on the down trun

[rwh11385]

I never said that e85 was a bad idea in general , but in the way its currently being implemented , it wont work and is not a bright move to continue down this road.

so why assume it cannot be better implemented and write it off already?

what do you mean more people can farm. I grew up on a farm that we had to sell off in small chunks just to survive. Farming is a multi million dollar investment in equipment alone not to mention huge prices for land. With diesel looking to 5 bucks a gallon, and framers cant set the price for their goods they have to get a going rate. You have to be working a good 1200ac to make a good profit. Why do you think any working much less than that have a real job an the wife dose too. Just so they can make it.

Dont tell me about framing, I wish I was still on the farm, I loved it an if I could, I would go back to it in a heart beat.

If there is demand, there is land not being used that used to be used that can be re-used if there is desire. Plus, a lot of land that can be used by different plants than corn that use less or no incesticide or fertilizer so lower cost.

I'm not saying single farmers will get back into it, but companies are looking seriously at the future of ethanol and making decisions based on it.

[mrsleeve]

2 things 1 how much of that farm land is now subdivisions an the burbs of cities now?????

2 in the 50's you could live on 7k a year,

Can you live on 7k a year now. Shit I eat that up in 5 months just paying the bills.

Like I said above you have to work 1200-1400ac to make a living wage an be able to keep up with you equipment an rising cost of everything. That number will continue to climb.

[rwh11385]

Well shit Heeter, I guess I'll just go out and buy a farm. What should I start planting? All you are looking at is the bigger picture the e85 pundits are holding in front of your face. You know its gonna die out. And you will be holding a set of nifty e85 keys running regular unleaded.