Global Warming: What do you think? What do you know?

[rwh11385]

Well shit Heeter, I guess I'll just go out and buy a farm. What should I start planting? All you are looking at is the bigger picture the e85 pundits are holding in front of your face. You know its gonna die out. And you will be holding a set of nifty e85 keys running regular unleaded.



There is a whole 'nother REAL big picture you are missing.


And for my money, I'd rather trust someone like me with realworld automotive knowledge than some College student with stars in his eyes. Soon you too will be disenchanted.

What big picture are you seeing smoking that Green?

You'd rather have realworld automotive knowledge and be unemployed?

Does weed make you disbelieve the government?

[Farbin Kaiber]

How many e85 stations do you have in Montana?

[mrsleeve]

I never said that e85 was a bad idea in general , but in the way its currently being implemented , it wont work and is not a bright move to continue down this road.

what do you mean more people can farm. I grew up on a farm that we had to sell off in small chunks just to survive. Farming is a multi million dollar investment in equipment alone not to mention huge prices for land. With diesel looking to be 5 bucks a gallon, and framers cant set the price for their goods, they have to accept the going rate good or bad weather it covers the expenses or not. You have to be working a good 1200-1400ac to make a good profit to live on. Why do you think anyone working much less than that have a real job an the wife dose too. Just so they can make it.

Dont tell me about framing, I wish I was still on the farm, I loved it an if I could, I would go back to it in a heart beat.

[Farbin Kaiber]

More people can farm than are currently.

Well shit Heeter, I guess I'll just go out and buy a farm. What should I start planting? All you are looking at is the bigger picture the e85 pundits are holding in front of your face. You know its gonna die out. And you will be holding a set of nifty e85 keys running regular unleaded.



There is a whole 'nother REAL big picture you are missing.


And for my money, I'd rather trust someone like me with realworld automotive knowledge than some College student with stars in his eyes. Soon you too will be disenchanted.

[rwh11385]

Now you will say if demand goes up due to short supply of other grains then some farms will swap back to other crops. This may be true but the whole E85 thing will have drive the cost of food and fuel up from where it is, and thats not good for any of us

More people can farm than are currently. Plus, there are better crops to use than corn on more land that is not suitable to corn but for switchgrass, etc.

To assault E85 because of current situation is like hating on planes back in the beginning of the 20th century, or computer when they filled entire rooms. Don't be so close-minded. Thinking that the only way to do things is pump oil from the ground is pretty limited.

[mrsleeve]

you guys that think turning corn in to fuel is a good idea are not to bright are you. Its happing now, you turn all the corn into fuel, you have lot of trickle down that will fuck us all in the end.

1 lots of farmers swapped out to corn because it was more profitable for them. Who can blame them either farming is hard enough to make a living at. Now you can hardly buy hay at resonable price (last years drought didnt help).

2 Do you like milk, eggs, or meat????? If you turn all the corn into fuel, then the price for animal feed goes up, thus goes up the price of those animal goods.

3 Do you like bread, cereal, cake or most food for that matter???? If you have all these farmers swapping to corn only for fuel then the price for for all products that have corn in them will sky rocket, not to mention the supply of other grains will go down because all the farmers will have swaped to the more profitable fuel crop.

Ask people in New Zeland (if I remember the article I read right) they are using lots of E85 an anything that has to do with corn has sky rockted in price.

Now you will say if demand goes up due to short supply of other grains then some farms will swap back to other crops. This may be true but the whole E85 thing will have drive the cost of food and fuel up from where it is, and thats not good for any of us

[atomic]

:p

[rwh11385]

[brandondan1]

Alternative fuels may not be very practical right now, but it's not foolish to continue developing them. Efficiency is only gained with time. Hell, look at the first computers. They took up several rooms(using tons of resources), and weren't even as powerful as a gameboy. But look how far we've come...

While humans may not be directly causing GW, I believe we are aiding it(however minimal it may be). The GW scare is only pushing us to become independent of foreign oil, and help protect/clean up the environment(and our own health), so I can't see why so many people are against the movement itself.

[Sean]

Joey, I must say, I really really like your thinking.

The one thing you mentioned about conservatives wanting to help the environment - well, I'm a conservative and although I may run my car on a straight pipe with no cat everyonce and a while, I'm a HUGE beliver in recycling and exploring alternative fuels. Out here in Illinois, it's not easy to recycle, like in CA. In CA you could throw ANYTHING that's recycable into the recycle container, and it was picked up weekly. In Illinois, you have to collect it all, organize it, and THEN take it somewhere. The guy I'm living with told me it's a waste of time to find somewhere to toss my 10 lbs worth of random papers and to just throw them in the trash. Yet, he believes in Global Warming (i'm assuming, since he's an obama/clinton lover). I mean, seriously, that's a crap ton of paper! I can't just throw that in the garbage!

You mentioned electric cars - definitely. I say internal combustion is more fun, well, because it is. Electric cars will be silent, but damn fast.

Here's one you may have been thinking of: http://www.teslamotors.com/

That car looks sooo damn badass.

[uofom3]

I, like uofom3, really enjoy these controversial and/or political threads.

I'm with most here in believing that global warming does exist, but due to natural cycles of the Earth. I'm not saying we're not contributing, but I will most definitely say I don't believe we're contributing in a way that liberals would like us to believe. Whoever said that without global warming Al Gore would be nothing is absolutely correct.

That said, I think it's bad policy from a political standpoint to not try to promote alternative fuels and sources of energy. Someone brought up Brazil, a very good example of a country who's government embraces new technologies to solve a problem. It's no secret that many of these technologies don't succeed here due to government red tape, and I think that really needs to change. I'm sure the oil companies and their lobbyists have something to do with it, but if that is the case, we're still not electing people willing to stand up to them. If someone were to really, truly try to push through the bureaucracy and make it easier for the US to adopt new technologies, I don't think he or she would have much opposition from the general population. I feel the problem is that many of these people who push for these technologies are using buzzwords like 'green' and 'global warming' and all these other terms, when really all they need to do is stand up and say 'we need to get off this foreign oil because it's bad policy to be so reliant on other countries for our energy' (that's the main reason for me). The second reason is because I believe there are cleaner, more efficient, ways of meeting our energy demands without the impact to our environment. Like most conservatives I know, I care deeply about the environment and what's happening to our Earth.

I believe the answer to our energy problem is electricity, mostly for one reason that nobody has touched on; flexibility. How many different ways are there to produce electricity? How many different ways are there to produce oil and other petroleum products? Ethanol? Biodiesel? Hydrogen? It seems every 'alternative' is very static, unable to adapt to changing conditions. We can get electricity from coal plants, oil plants, the sun, the ocean, the wind, rivers, nuclear plants, and many other sources. It seems to me like banking on one technology, that's not universal, and that can only be acquired in one way, is akin to putting all your money into one stock instead of diversifying your portfolio. Think about everything we use electricity for, and everything we use the other technologies for; it seems to be the one 'energy' that can do it all. Sure, there are some drawbacks, but we're just breaking the ice when it comes to what electric cars can do (not talking about hybrids). GM produced an electric car that was actually used on our roadways in limited numbers that could travel 150 miles on one four hour charge, and apparently they were pretty quick. Have you guys seem some of the performance-oriented prototype cars some of these small companies are making? 0-60 in 3 seconds and such, it's nuts. We need to ask ourselves, what's taking so long to get these cars approved for the road?

QFT

[Sean]

Waaah?

Peak torque at 0 RPM > else

Yea, but it's not as fun. ;)

[Ral]

I, like uofom3, really enjoy these controversial and/or political threads.

I'm with most here in believing that global warming does exist, but due to natural cycles of the Earth. I'm not saying we're not contributing, but I will most definitely say I don't believe we're contributing in a way that liberals would like us to believe. Whoever said that without global warming Al Gore would be nothing is absolutely correct.

That said, I think it's bad policy from a political standpoint to not try to promote alternative fuels and sources of energy. Someone brought up Brazil, a very good example of a country who's government embraces new technologies to solve a problem. It's no secret that many of these technologies don't succeed here due to government red tape, and I think that really needs to change. I'm sure the oil companies and their lobbyists have something to do with it, but if that is the case, we're still not electing people willing to stand up to them. If someone were to really, truly try to push through the bureaucracy and make it easier for the US to adopt new technologies, I don't think he or she would have much opposition from the general population. I feel the problem is that many of these people who push for these technologies are using buzzwords like 'green' and 'global warming' and all these other terms, when really all they need to do is stand up and say 'we need to get off this foreign oil because it's bad policy to be so reliant on other countries for our energy' (that's the main reason for me). The second reason is because I believe there are cleaner, more efficient, ways of meeting our energy demands without the impact to our environment. Like most conservatives I know, I care deeply about the environment and what's happening to our Earth.

I believe the answer to our energy problem is electricity, mostly for one reason that nobody has touched on; flexibility. How many different ways are there to produce electricity? How many different ways are there to produce oil and other petroleum products? Ethanol? Biodiesel? Hydrogen? It seems every 'alternative' is very static, unable to adapt to changing conditions. We can get electricity from coal plants, oil plants, the sun, the ocean, the wind, rivers, nuclear plants, and many other sources. It seems to me like banking on one technology, that's not universal, and that can only be acquired in one way, is akin to putting all your money into one stock instead of diversifying your portfolio. Think about everything we use electricity for, and everything we use the other technologies for; it seems to be the one 'energy' that can do it all. Sure, there are some drawbacks, but we're just breaking the ice when it comes to what electric cars can do (not talking about hybrids). GM produced an electric car that was actually used on our roadways in limited numbers that could travel 150 miles on one four hour charge, and apparently they were pretty quick. Have you guys seem some of the performance-oriented prototype cars some of these small companies are making? 0-60 in 3 seconds and such, it's nuts. We need to ask ourselves, what's taking so long to get these cars approved for the road?

what he said

[TwoJ's]

But, electric doesn't hold shit against internal combustion hydrogen motors! :)

Waaah?

Peak torque at 0 RPM > else

[Joey Link]

Aw damn, I wrote another essay :P