American Exceptionalism

[rwh11385]

Thank you for proving Ted's point. If there not so many people like you who fault this country instead of loving it, we would be in an even better position.

You're missing the point. You said everyone in the world would be envious to be an American and their life would be 100X better if in a mediocre position in the USA.

Only... there are 20+ countries in the world in which the people are a lot happier where they live than Americans are to be here.

[uofom3]

You're missing the point. You said everyone in the world would be envious to be an American and their life would be 100X better if in a mediocre position in the USA.

Only... there are 20+ countries in the world in which the people are a lot happier where they live than Americans are to be here.

Happiness as defined by who? I wouldn't be happy in a society where the government dictated so much of my life, or I wasn't in a position to become as successful as I possibly could. I would be demotivated and frustrated.

Asking people if they are happy is just such a tough thing to gauge - I know there are parts of my life where I certainly wasn't happy; but it was my fault and no one elses.

[trent]

You're missing the point. You said everyone in the world would be envious to be an American and their life would be 100X better if in a mediocre position in the USA.

Only... there are 20+ countries in the world in which the people are a lot happier where they live than Americans are to be here.

I didn't miss the point. Sure these people can be happy in their own countries, but they don't know how much happier they could be in the good ol' USA.

[uofom3]

I didn't miss the point. Sure these people can be happy in their own countries, but they don't know how much happier they could be in the good ol' USA.

hahaha

Trent is just a chainsaw.

He does raise a point, however. Other than not being able to smoke pot here legally, they probably could do more of what they love in the US. More land, more money, more diverse climate, etc. BUT - that may not equate to happiness.

Maybe i'm just too efficient minded or something (which is possible) and devoid these discussions of the "human" factors... but injecting a discussion of happiness into a thread that is SUPPOSED TO BE HAPPY after you shit on it just doesn't seem to make sense. It's like saying you're not happy, and just continuing your self-loathing.

[rwh11385]

Is that wrong? I've came to the realization that money, stuff, etc. is not ultimately going to make me happy or fulfilled. With that said, I like nice stuff. I got a job that paid well so I could buy nice stuff, and a degree that helped me get that job.

I have found happiness in the bottom of a coors light, at 7k with a CF airboxed s14, and volunteering with kids. What's the point? that in each case, the more financially secure you are, the more enjoyment you can get out things AND the more you can give back.

If I own a business, I'm having a bigger impact on someones life DIRECTLY than the government could ever hand out in socialization or stimulous checks. I can help them earn the money to send their kids to school, have free time to volunteer with the PTA, volunteer time as a driving instructor at an HPDE day - all of which better other peoples lives.

The trouble is that your views are in the minority. Bill Gates spends a lot of time and money helping others, and the US is one of the best at doing such, but think about Enron and the people who fill out airwaves. Paris Hilton for example. The girls from Laguna Beach - yeah, one of the girls I know is from their HS and is a pretty ignorant about the world and a spoiled brat.

A lot of people give up themselves and their values for money, give up time with their kids, and often happiness, in the pursuit of money. How many people in the US complain about hating their job? Plenty. And how do they deal with this?

We can afford to do other things with our time and give back, which is great, but there are those among us who are too busy worrying about their income than their family, friends, community, etc.

How many divorced families are there? How many kids are raising themselves? How many bad philosophies are being adopted from bad influences on television? How many crimes are people wanting more, even if that won't make them better? How many people are at X income and think XX income would make them happier and live a better life when there's other things to find enjoyment in.

Like I said, the American machine is powerful, but lacks consideration of certain things. If we open up how we interpret happiness and our goals of our life, then we could maybe improve how we are.

[rwh11385]

I didn't miss the point. Sure these people can be happy in their own countries, but they don't know how much happier they could be in the good ol' USA.

And do you know what it is like to live in Holland, Denmark, Sweden?

[trent]

And do you know what it is like to live in Holland, Denmark, Sweden?

Did I say that? No. However, because I believe in this country, take pride in this country, and understand what makes this country great, I can easily assume that most people in the world would want to live in the USA. Simple as that.

[rwh11385]

Happiness as defined by who? I wouldn't be happy in a society where the government dictated so much of my life, or I wasn't in a position to become as successful as I possibly could. I would be demotivated and frustrated.

Asking people if they are happy is just such a tough thing to gauge - I know there are parts of my life where I certainly wasn't happy; but it was my fault and no one elses.

http://www.le.ac.uk/users/aw57/world/sample.html

It is worth taking a moment at this point to explore the psychological research into SWB. In the literature a major distinction is drawn between brief emotional episodes, periods of joy or acute happiness, and an underlying state of happiness. This underlying state is conceptualised as a sense of satisfaction with one’s life, both in general and in specific areas of one’s life such as relationships, health and work. It is this underlying state of happiness, a measure of subjective well-being (SWB), that is the focus of most current research. A good example of this is the Satisfaction With Life Scale (Pavot & Diener, 1993), a currently popular measure of SWB.

The measurement of something as intangible as SWB is not without difficulties. Schwarz & Stack (1999) have shown, for example, that temporary mood states can influence a participant’s response to SWB measures. However others have shown that temporary moods have only a marginal effect on SWB responses when compared to longer-term influences (Eid & Diener,1999). It has also been shown the long-term changes to an individuals circumstances can affect levels of SWB (countering the suggestion that SWB is biologically determined). Brickman, Coates & Janoff-Bulman (1978) showed that lottery winners were significantly happier than controls, and controls were happier than people who had recently become paraplegics (although the effect was insufficient to reject the null hypothesis due to a small sample size). As such it has been shown that temporary mood states have only a marginal effect on SWB, whilst long term changes and situational factors have a significant effect on SWB.

Whilst happiness is in itself intangible measures of SWB have been shown to be both valid and reliable (Pavot & Diener, 1993). In addition, measure of SWB have shown to be closely associated with more tangible outcomes that would be expected to correlate with measures of SWB. There is extensive evidence of correlations between SWB and general health (Diener, 2000). Arrindell, Heesink & Feij (1999) also found that the use of medical services correlated negatively with SWB. This finding was further supported by Eid & Diener (1999) who showed that SWB was a significant predictor of mental health levels.

Having shown that SWB is affected by long-term situational factors, and that SWB is closely associated with positive outcomes, researchers in positive psychology have focussed on how to increase levels of SWB (see Snyder, 2002, and Seligman, 2006). Diener (2000) has shown the effect of financial well-being on SWB. Additionally, Inglehart (1990) has shown meeting the basic needs of people, needs such as healthcare, education and housing, have strong effects on SWB.

Satisfaction With Life Scale (Pavot & Diener, 1993), a currently popular measure of SWB.

http://www.psych.uiuc.edu/~ediener/hottopic/hottopic.html

Below are five statements that you may agree or disgree with. Using the 1 - 7 scale below indicate your agreement with each item by placing the appropriate number on the line preceding that item. Please be open and honest in your responding.

* 7 - Strongly agree
* 6 - Agree
* 5 - Slightly agree
* 4 - Neither agree nor disgree
* 3 - Slightly disagree
* 2 - Disgree
* 1 - Strongly disgree

____ In most ways my life is close to my ideal.

____ The conditions of my life are excellent.

____ I am satisfied with my life.

____ So far I have gotten the important things I want in life.

____ If I could live my life over, I would change almost nothing.

[rwh11385]

Did I say that? No. However, because I believe in this country, take pride in this country, and understand what makes this country great, I can easily assume that most people in the world would want to live in the USA. Simple as that.

You could, but you would be making an ass out of yourself. Maybe there is a Trent in Denmark thinking that everyone in the US would only wish they could live in Copenhagen...

[uofom3]

The trouble is that your views are in the minority.

How many divorced families are there? How many kids are raising themselves? How many bad philosophies are being adopted from bad influences on television? How many crimes are people wanting more, even if that won't make them better? How many people are at X income and think XX income would make them happier and live a better life when there's other things to find enjoyment in.

Like I said, the American machine is powerful, but lacks consideration of certain things. If we open up how we interpret happiness and our goals of our life, then we could maybe improve how we are.

Now you are talking about errosion of our society and it's moral values; which go hand-in-hand with "progressive" thinking and socialization. You take the pledge out of classrooms, remove anything resembling winning and loosing from childhood sports and grades, and you breed a generation of coddled, spoiled brats. The people who are the problem in this country are not the people in small towns who "Cling to their guns and religion" - rather they preach hard work, right and wrong, consequences, etc - the problem is people who ingest 90 hours of VH1/MTV/BET/CMT every week, read shitty gossup magazines and think that's the way it's supposed to be without having the slightest idea of what it takes to get there. This affects men and women, young and middle aged, etc.

On another point with this, the countries that you have cited think that Americans are overworked, wasteful, arrogant, rich and the downfall of the world as we know it. Well, there are lot of people who think western europe is full of stoners and drunks who rock on the gov's dime while they buy their excessively good hash from a bar down the street. Is this accurate? Probably not, but neither is their depiction. Everyone I talk to who comes back from europe talks about the architecture, the history, etc - but almost eveyryone also marvels at how easy it is to get fucked up there on some sort of substance. Painting innaccurate pictures goes both ways.

[uofom3]

Your psychological data is valid, but it changes based on the country. It's not a fair comparison. Those people may be happier than I am based on the situation because they fit into that mold, but I WOULD NOT be happy in their situation. Does that make sense, or do I need to elaborate further (not being a dick, i'm making sure this is clear).

[project86]

UofO You're a business major huh?

[uofom3]

UofO You're a business major huh?

Apparently, it's that obvious.

[rwh11385]

Your psychological data is valid, but it changes based on the country. It's not a fair comparison. Those people may be happier than I am based on the situation because they fit into that mold, but I WOULD NOT be happy in their situation. Does that make sense, or do I need to elaborate further (not being a dick, i'm making sure this is clear).

Does that even matter? (really) It goes both ways, and you're again assuming that our way of life is the best, although that's all you have ever known presumably.

[uofom3]

happiness is great Heeter, but what about Maslow? I think you've got a better shot in the US than most places to move higher up the ladder.