American Exceptionalism

[alexw]

Thanks bro! And while I personally know people who have come over illegally and are still illegal, I have to admit some pride in that we landed here with residency lined up...

I hear ya, it does anger me about individuals coming over illegally. While I hate the fact that they aren't contributing, and paying taxes etc... It's hard to blame them, but that doesn't make it right.

So congrats, and thanks for doing it legally!

[Jand3rson]

Congrats!

I love hearing about folks becoming citizens, that is a truly awesome thing.

Same. I think it's great that people want to come here, and be worthwhile members of our society. If you've got something to contribute, then by all means, please come on over!

[Maluco]

Congrats!

I love hearing about folks becoming citizens, that is a truly awesome thing.

Thanks bro! And while I personally know people who have come over illegally and are still illegal, I have to admit some pride in that we landed here with residency lined up...

[alexw]

My parents just became US citizens a couple of days ago (dual-citizenship) and I am next.

God Bless the United States and keep its shepards.

Congrats!

I love hearing about folks becoming citizens, that is a truly awesome thing.

[Maluco]

I'll leave emotions and other thoughts out and represent my proudness in living in the US. I was born in Brasil and migrated here with my parents. I have also been to many different countries and for more reasons than I care to list now, I am very happy to reside in the United States of America.

Too the majority, if not all that reside here, I would say read and learn a bit of what this country was founded on, what common men and others took up and sacrificed to establish these States United. What is available and attainable here cannot even be compared to what exists in other countries IMO. My parents just became US citizens a couple of days ago (dual-citizenship) and I am next.

God Bless the United States and keep its shepards.

[uofom3]

I am not sure if you are trying to lump me into that catagory, but I am most certainly not that way. When in another country, you are exactly that, you are on their home terf. I have zero problem being shy and understanding that the people in whichever particular country might think that THEY live in the best country in the world. Maybe that is the point I didn't get across. I certainly don't put somebody else down for thinking something different than I.

Spot on. When in Rome....

Maybe i'm just surrounded by good people. I don't see the dooshbagery that has been exemplified by others on a frequent basis, apparently - or at least do not associate with them.

It all boils down to respect. You can believe you're correct/etc. and not be a dick.

A lot of americans are disrespectful, but I feel that goes back to the errosion of society.

[alexw]

A few years ago some friends and I went to the Bahamas for Spring Break. I've never been more embarrassed to be an American than I was on that trip, looking around at the way these Americans (as a general rule, white privileged college kids) treated the locals. It was disgusting, and you could see the frustration and anger on the locals' faces. It's this kind of "I'm Amuurikan with lots of money, you should serve me" attitude that is why Americans are seen as they are abroad. That said, we donate billions to other nations in aid, military spending, etc. A family friend who worked in the Pentagon told me that, after 20 years as a Submarine officer, the thing that most surprised him when he got to the Pentagon was how much money we gave to other nations.

One of the big pushes within the Navy and Marine Corps is the idea of "No better friend, No worst enemy"- every special operations team, as well as (I believe- Franco90 would know better than I) every Marine Corps infantry unit rotates through a "village" in the Eastern California desert, complete with former Iraqi volunteers, to teach every infantryman the local culture, key words in the language, local politics, etc.

Very good post!

I have been overseas for 3 years. And there have been times where I've seen Americans act like dumb asses. But at the same time, I see quite a few (the majority) of Americans embracing the culture. Military members are taught customs and basic language skills when they arrive to other countries. These are things I wont ever forget, and use them whenever I can. One example was yesterday when I went to a Korean restaurant here in Germany. I spoke the little Korean that I knew, and our waitress smiled ear to ear.

Anyways, we're not hated everywhere. And the best advice I can give to everyone when traveling is to be one of the good guys, an ambassador for our country.

(some more blatant that others- trent)

"I'm Amuurikan with lots of money, you should serve me" attitude that is why Americans are seen as they are abroad.

I am not sure if you are trying to lump me into that catagory, but I am most certainly not that way. When in another country, you are exactly that, you are on their home terf. I have zero problem being shy and understanding that the people in whichever particular country might think that THEY live in the best country in the world. Maybe that is the point I didn't get across. I certainly don't put somebody else down for thinking something different than I.

[Ral]

Here's what drives me nuts, and I'm seeing flashes of it in this thread (some more blatant that others- trent)

A few years ago some friends and I went to the Bahamas for Spring Break. I've never been more embarrassed to be an American than I was on that trip, looking around at the way these Americans (as a general rule, white privileged college kids) treated the locals. It was disgusting, and you could see the frustration and anger on the locals' faces. It's this kind of "I'm Amuurikan with lots of money, you should serve me" attitude that is why Americans are seen as they are abroad. That said, we donate billions to other nations in aid, military spending, etc. A family friend who worked in the Pentagon told me that, after 20 years as a Submarine officer, the thing that most surprised him when he got to the Pentagon was how much money we gave to other nations.

One of the big pushes within the Navy and Marine Corps is the idea of "No better friend, No worst enemy"- every special operations team, as well as (I believe- Franco90 would know better than I) every Marine Corps infantry unit rotates through a "village" in the Eastern California desert, complete with former Iraqi volunteers, to teach every infantryman the local culture, key words in the language, local politics, etc. No matter how justified we are in hitting a target, doing something militarily, etc., There will still be hard feelings. An 11 year old doesn't know the background behind why a building was hit, or why there's big, scary white people with black guns in his country shooting at the building next to him; he just knows an American plane killed his friends and people he knew, or those same people he knew just got shot by the Americans. He probably doesn't understand that it was self-defense on the Americans part and not random acts of violence (and it had better goddamn better be), only that people that look and talk like him that he knows just got killed by outsiders who won't leave. And more than likely, he will be brought up with hatred instilled in him by those intent on turning him (and the rest of his generation) against other tribe/sects, and the West.

Those of us in the military and government will have to tread very lightly to protect our interests and reverse some of the damage done to the rest of the world by us. At the same time, we'll have to deal with internal struggles: the widening gap between rich and poor, faltering (failing) education systems, an erosion of values that both UofM3 and Heeter both touched on, technology advancing faster than society can regulate/ethically deal with it (look up RFID for an example), an aging population, to name a few.

But, "There's nothing wrong with this country that can't be fixed by what's right with the country". In the meantime, thank the guys overseas on this board- It's much harder/more frustrating to be in the military now than at any time before in American history between budget cuts, the nature of the enemy being fought, etc. Hats off you you guys: I'll see you soon. Just gotta learn to fly planes first.

[rwh11385]

Business is business. More often that not the business man playing nice will lose out to somebody who is competing.

... long run. You may benefit from being "slick" in your first time dealing with someone, but a healthy mutual beneficial relationship with all players in business can lead to success.

Or at least what they are teaching in business strategy and ethics these days, and what some companies are basing their principles on. If you fuck over people without a heart you may not get as far as if you played fair and nice.

Playing nice does not mean not competing.

Business is business. More often that not the business man playing nice will lose out to somebody who is competing.

[rwh11385]

I understand that the USA has a large responsibility in the world, I guess we can agree to disagree that I have no problem being so arrogant about the USA being the best country in the world. So, what happens if the USA is no longer arrogant and loses its dedicated drive. What happens? The entire world takes a shit because the USA is no longer arrogant and driven to be the best on the planet.

The United States does not have to lose its pride and dedicated drive in order to respect other nations. We can work better with others if we appreciate their views and value them rather than ignore them. It's the same with countries as is with organizations and with people. Playing nice does not mean not competing.

That's again the "we can do no wrong, we are not at fault" logic.

The referenced statement was supposed to have a question mark on the end. Apologies -- I wasn't trying to make it a "statement."

The United States is a huge factor in the world, and we need to remember that. Just look what happened to world FDI after 2001:

I understand that the USA has a large responsibility in the world, I guess we can agree to disagree that I have no problem being so arrogant about the USA being the best country in the world. So, what happens if the USA is no longer arrogant and loses its dedicated drive. What happens? The entire world takes a shit because the USA is no longer arrogant and driven to be the best on the planet.

[rwh11385]

It's one thing to care about what other nations/people think of the US. It's another to know that you're going to piss people off, but we've got to do the right thing anyways.

We're one of the only (if not the only) country that goes to war, blows the living hell out of everything, then takes the time and money to rebuild. But others only see the "Shock and Awe" on CNN.

I may not agree 100% with everything our country has done, but that rebuilding is the type of stuff that makes me proud.

To do some things, for the most part that have to be done to make things right, you may piss some people off.

But the examples of arrogance in this thread can be multiplied time and again for other people in the country and with some of our decisions that were not necessary do not win us friends.

We may not need friends right now, but someday we may have wished we played nicer. And heh, if we did, maybe we'd have more on our team when we did need to take a step.

[rwh11385]

The problem I have with what you stated is the fact that this isn't an American problem. Maybe the problem is with the rest of the world's people and countires, who are envious of the USA and the aid and support that we throw to countries without the blink of an eye.

That's again the "we can do no wrong, we are not at fault" logic.

I could care less what other countries want to do. They can do whatever they please. This isn't arrogant, it's that I'm not there and don't have to live in the situation. They should govern, etc. as they see fit.

I can't be the only who who could give a flying fuck about the rest of the world.

The problem is the choices we make impact other people, and their freedom. Just because we are huge doesn't give us any right to decide what other people do (well, within reason - atrocities, Germany in WWII, etc). We obviously feel we should be free to do what we want without another country saying shit, even when it's in other countries, yet don't give the same respect for others?

Sure, we help. But we also impress our belief systems on others, and are closeminded a lot.

We've sought out the lowest wages, and benefited, and I don't think we exploit nations as much as some protest, but we do have responsibility to help them as much as we use them. Ultimately, we need to think of the impact on them as well as us. Like I mentioned in other threads, there needs to be a shift in philosophy to considering everyone involved: customers, suppliers, employees, share holders, and the community, not just the profits/shareholders - and if we see business/the world in this way we can make business more friendly to others in the world, as well as our lives/country's decisions.

Because of globalization, the world and our partners are more and more important. We can't be the brat and expect good relationships. It is a problem for America if we act poorly and cannot work together with other nations.

The rest of the world is probably more annoyed by the viewed oppression over others and lack of concern for other people's views, freedoms, lives.

The United States is a huge factor in the world, and we need to remember that. Just look what happened to world FDI after 2001: