SCOTUS rules in favor of the 2nd Amendment

[CleanAzzE30z]

The problem will always be that there are guns on the street. You and the Government will never be able to remove those guns. The "bad" guys will never turn them in and you would only be disarming the law abiding citizen. Thus crime rates would go up, when the "Bad" guy have no fear of getting shot.

Exactly. There is the crux of the argument. How does one take the guns away from the people that really shouldnt have them. These people will find a way to get them no matter what the laws are since its not governed by the laws seeing as its illegal. You have a point here.




Mariano

[joshh]

You arent listening/reading.

I said:

straw sales are shit for criminals because if you are using them in a crime you fuck the guy buying it for you. Black market = nobody gives a shit what you do.

0 of those 10 people wouldnt buy a gun for you if they knew you were going to use it for a criminal act.

And you are disproving your own point. You want gun laws but you are saying you know firsthand to get around them. GREAT! That means, like I said, the only people affected by them are those who already FOLLOW THE RULES.

Yeah because MY friends aren't criminals. Criminals friends don't give a shit.
Straw sales are a fact and are being done this minute and the gun is used in a crime. Just because you see the flaw in why they shouldn't doesn't mean it's not happening. Straw sales are a huge problem here. That is a fact.

I want gun laws that at least slow the influx of arms to criminals. And it can be done. With some laws that are half way smart unlike the ones we have now.
But I will also push the same point again. Just because someone doesn't have a felony doesn't mean they are honest or can be trusted with a firearm.
Laws need to be passed to protect people that are responsible with they're firearms.

[joshh]

Its that new thing, I think its called sarcasm. Dont know if its gotten around to you over there yet. ;) jk man.



T

Missed that...

Exactly. There is the crux of the argument. How does one take the guns away from the people that really shouldnt have them. These people will find a way to get them no matter what the laws are since its not governed by the laws seeing as its illegal. You have a point here.




Mariano

Problem here is the criminal isn't the only one to worry about. Straw sales are made by what the Right call "honest" owners.
So it's not just the criminal we have to worry about.

[CleanAzzE30z]

Problem here is the criminal isn't the only one to worry about. Straw sales are made by what the Right call "honest" owners.
So it's not just the criminal we have to worry about.

Hey man you dont have to tell me. I know.




Mariano

[Vedubin01]

Straw purchases are illegal and you can face some serious time for it.

You are not allowed to purchase a gun for anyone other than yourself. If your caught you can face 10 years and up to $250k in fines.

I am not really worried about that as much as the guns that are already in the hands of the criminals. The big time drug dealers and such are guys that might live right next door to you and me. They have no criminal record. Thus current laws would not screen them out. The gang bangers steal guns from houses and cars that were not properly stored.

I feel if a gun is used in a criminal act, such as armed robbery, murder (proven- not self defense) and any violent act, the death penalty would be enacted.

I am all for public executions in town square. People need to understand that life is fragile. And people need to see someone die, to understand that its not a game and there are serious consequences for ones actions.

Hold the parents and family responsible for their kids actions. Take away all benefits and social security to all family members. People just need to be accountable and the only way to do that is Stern punishment for their actions!



Just remember an armed society is a polite society.

[Hallen]

I am a gun advocate for the most part. However, there are just too many irresponsible people out there when it comes to taking responsibility for the protection, use, and sale of their weapons.

I know there are ways around just about every security device out there, but something like an RFID signature chip embedded in every gun would help. All guns would need to be sold only through authorized dealers. Dealers would have to take the responsibility of either providing consignment services or outright purchase of "used" guns. That would be the only way to disassociate that gun from me, the person who bought it originally. If a gun gets used in a crime, and that gun can be traced back to me, then there would be some serious questions if the gun hadn't been reported as stolen. This might help keep people more aware of the disposal and storage of unwanted weapons. I think it would also help with straw sales.

Of course dirty dealers and possibly some other technology to disable the RFID would be able to get around these safeguards. But, it is one idea that would allow honest and responsible people to own guns, while taking some measures to control those guns getting to the bad guys.

I currently don't own weapons because I don't feel the need to do so. However, I do know how to handle and fire just about any weapon out there. I have had that training. I have also had some pretty good shooting lessons and I enjoy shooting as a sport. If I did own weapons, then I would also own a gun safe. I don't want my stuff stolen and a safe is a good way to prevent that.

I also have an antique weapon that was collected by my great grandfather and passed down to me by my grandfather. I would love to hang it on the wall of my front room, but since you could see into that room from the street, I don't do it. It would be too tempting for some moron to try and steal, even though the gun is a muzzle loader and not in a condition to ever be fired again. Sad.

[Vedubin01]

though that sounds good and might be used in the future. The problem is that the government now knows who owns what. Thats a bad thing. The fathers of this country were against big government and left England for that reason (religious as well) The law was so that the government could not inslave its people. And with a tracking system, storm troopers could storm in and remove and disarm its people changing the government as it is today.

Today government already has to much power. They are already trying to dictate what you do and how you do it. We come from the land of the free and though we live free'r than others its not what this country was meant to be.


When you were forced to have a Social Security number, many said it was the mark of the beast. A way that government can track you. Now not only does the government use that number your also tracked with your credit. Tracking guns is a bad thing because its the only way to be able to over power our government if need be. Remember the Government is to be working for us and not the other way around as it is today.

[Ryan Stewart]

Yeah because MY friends aren't criminals. Criminals friends don't give a shit.
Straw sales are a fact and are being done this minute and the gun is used in a crime. Just because you see the flaw in why they shouldn't doesn't mean it's not happening. Straw sales are a huge problem here. That is a fact.

I want gun laws that at least slow the influx of arms to criminals. And it can be done. With some laws that are half way smart unlike the ones we have now.
But I will also push the same point again. Just because someone doesn't have a felony doesn't mean they are honest or can be trusted with a firearm.
Laws need to be passed to protect people that are responsible with they're firearms.

No criminal is knowingly going to take the fall for someone else. The gun is traced and the person who bought the gun in the straw sale is fucked. That ISNT how criminals get guns. I sold the things for 3 years and only one came back as used in a crime, second hand. It was involved in a crime of passon. That wasnt one out of all of the guns I sold, that was for our entire dealer for 11 years.

Im sure straw purchases happen every day. What law do you propose will prevent them? Dunno if you know this but they are already illegal. The typical straw purchase is to get around residency requirements, not to conceal the original of a gun to be used in a crime (because its a shitty way to do it).

Criminals use stolen, imported or shaved guns. They dont buy them from dealers, prove otherwise or your entire argument is garbage.

My sole argument is that gun laws, like any ban, do jack shit to slow the influx of anything to criminals. At most they just raise the price.

Handguns are banned in England if I am not mistaken. So you mean to tell me that criminals dont have access to handguns?

[joshh]

No criminal is knowingly going to take the fall for someone else. The gun is traced and the person who bought the gun in the straw sale is fucked. That ISNT how criminals get guns. I sold the things for 3 years and only one came back as used in a crime, second hand. It was involved in a crime of passon. That wasnt one out of all of the guns I sold, that was for our entire dealer for 11 years.

Im sure straw purchases happen every day. What law do you propose will prevent them? Dunno if you know this but they are already illegal. The typical straw purchase is to get around residency requirements, not to conceal the original of a gun to be used in a crime (because its a shitty way to do it).

Criminals use stolen, imported or shaved guns. They dont buy them from dealers, prove otherwise or your entire argument is garbage.

My sole argument is that gun laws, like any ban, do jack shit to slow the influx of anything to criminals. At most they just raise the price.

Handguns are banned in England if I am not mistaken. So you mean to tell me that criminals dont have access to handguns?

But I thought you said criminals don't follow the law so why bother make laws for criminals?? Straw sales are the law, why would they care? Just using your own words against you. People even go as far as getting a FFL so they can sell the guns to criminals. But wait, that's against the law as well.
Yes it is.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/guns/procon/guns.html

http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/111-01232008-1475730.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbine_High_School_massacre

James Brady was shot by a gun from a straw sale.

http://www.commondreams.org/news2003/0617-05.htm

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C07E3D71039F930A15755C0A9629C8B63

http://wwwtmrcom.blogspot.com/2007/04/tulsa-gun-dealers-paperwork-reveals.html

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/stories/2008/04/12/guns_0413.html

http://www.mayorsagainstillegalguns.org/downloads/pdf/inside-straw-purchases.pdf

Is it the only way criminals are getting guns, no. But it is a very easy way to get them.
And like I said before, it;'s not the criminals we should only be focusing on.
Many laws are made to keep honest people honest.

Wrong, current gun laws do jack shit because they were designed poorly.

I can't believe you're outright saying criminals don't get guns this way.
It's pretty obvious you have done very little reading on this subject.
People don't speed either because then they'd get a ticket.

[Vedubin01]

IRONIC!

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstories/2008/06/02/anti-gun-campaigner-pat-regan-stabbed-to-death-89520-20592515/

[Ryan Stewart]

Im bored with this josh guys posts since he doesnt bother to actually read mine (or understand english)

IRONIC!

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstor...9520-20592515/

Now, see that wouldnt have happend had they banned handguns....

[Vedubin01]

Now, see that wouldnt have happend had they banned handguns....

That is in the UK and guns are banned.... Im not quite following you there...


This is a video of what the Government will do it crisis times!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-taU9d26wT4

[Vedubin01]

Check this one out......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9xf62PKC5M&feature=related

[CorvallisBMW]

IRONIC!

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstor...9520-20592515/

Yes, that is quite ironic. But even if she had owned a gun, do your really think she would have shot her own grandson?

[Vedubin01]

If I had a son that was mentally deranged coming at me with a knife. You better believe me I would pull it out. I CCW all the time!