The American "Guy"

[TwoJ's]

Weed science is a real degree too and leads to a career as well... but it's not what all those Cali or PNW boys think it is.

Just out of curiosity,are people from the PNW thought of as weed smokers by the rest of the country? I know Seattle is labeled as coffee lovers and computer nerds, but I don't know about weed.

[der affe]

pass this on to him. suck up to every fire fighter he meets. the more people he knows on the force the better off his chances are of getting on a force. age is an important thing too. phx doesn't like to hire anyone under 25-27.

also, if he can get on with a smaller dept on the outskirts of a major metro city, it is way easier. there is a VERY good chance that as the major city grows it will annex the smaller dept. and bam! he is on to gravy train!
i unfortunately miss out on a similar opportunity because the smaller dept paid crap. they were actually having trouble getting people to apply. six months later, phx annexed daisy mountain and....instant pay raise and benefits! big mistake on my part for not having the foresight to see what was going to happen!

[2Big4a3Series]

My sister just turned 26 and she lives at my mom's house. She got a bachelors in athletic training, and that really doesn't get you shit. You can't earn much with the degree, the only way to make real money in that field is go get a PhD.

One thing that I learned is that whatever you decide to major in, you have to have a solid plan. My sister's friend who has a PhD as a medical doctor only makes 38K a year. While in school she just went through the motions and barely graduated thinking that having the degree would buy her a decent job.

[h0lmes]

Maybe some people don't care much about the money?

I am a Philosophy major and I knew right from the start it wasn't going to get me a high paying job. I stick with it though because I enjoy the material and I see it more as personal enrichment then a money ticket.

Also, why do people have to do what everybody else does? High School to College to career seems like hell to me even if it means making loads of cash. I plan on travelling, spending some time in the wilderness and then hopefully a future in the Air Force. This seems like a much better life to me than a 9-5 desk job.

[Jordan325iC]

I am a sociology major. I am fully aware that a BA in Sociology is not the ticket to a mini-mansion in the suburbs or the $80k vehicles. Yet, I don't care. I love the curriculum and I plan to study it for the rest of my life, professionally or not.

After my BA I will decide to go for a PhD in psych research or decide to go another direction with my degree. Money would be nice, but I won't die if I don't end up a rich man.

[uofom3]

Damn, Ted. I am with Bret on this one.

I guess it is a generational thing. But I like to think that integrity still means something.

I guess i don't feel as though i compromised my integrity, but that's up for you to pass your own judgement. When you're a college student who doesn't have a lot of extra $ to throw at your weekends entertainment, some free goodies don't sound half bad.

Also, there are a LOT of things that go on at the higher education level that make it less than legit. Get inside a collegiate atmosphere from an administrative level and you will shake your head. Ever met someone who has a degree and you go "how the hell did that guy manage to graduate?" There are ways... just like guys who get PT in sports, into a B school without the requisite grades, etc. I've never been the beneficiary of this, but I have seen it first hand. It's a hell of a machine at that level. I don't begrudge it either, it's just the way it is.

In the business and economics department, this stuff wouldn't fly however. Sociology/Poly-sci/art/etc. this stuff is beyond common place. To think none of this happens is to be blind to the truth. I can think of several people that I dealt with in school who were far, far from smart enough to be in the classes they were in. Yet, there they were. I later find out that their dad/mom/grandparent/etc. is a doner to the school, parents work in the administrative end, etc. They made a few phone calls, pulled a few strings, and boom - they're in the school of their choice. It's similar to someone with a family owned business putting their kid in charge and paying them a grip of money even though they have no idea what they're doing.

Oh well - this isn't a thread about corruption in higher education - but to think it doesn't exist in a major way is naive IMO.

EDIT: yes, I will concede that it was not a good idea.

[Hallen]

Well, never write yourself off, I don't care if you are getting a sociology, philosophy, history, or ME with Math degree. The main thing is to punch that ticket and get the degree. Honestly, for the type of work that I do, it really is a cross of multiple disciplines within the company from engineering, to accounting, to operations, to marketing and MarCom. But mostly it is about getting things done, listening to people, and being presentable. That doesn't mean that you have to look pretty, it means that if I put you in front of a potential customer, can you provide a positive impression. I have hired people with literary degrees, and most of the people I work with did not have business degrees. I'll take a guy with a history degree and some work experience over a punk with an MBA that hasn't worked a day of his life. ( I hate MBA speak. It is like living with Dilbert's pointy haired boss)

For the liberal arts and business stuff, school is like basic training in the Army (or OCS, I have done both). It is just the dues you have to pay to be accepted. It shows motivation, discipline and the ability to get things done even if they seem worthless, stupid and counter productive (like many college assignments are). I got my degree when I was 33 after spending time on active duty and going to flight school and knocking about for a few years. It is never too late.

It is definitely not the only path to happiness, that is for sure though. It is more important to do what makes you happy rather than doing something you can't stand to make money. You have to be realistic about it. Not everybody can be an astronaut. Also, you might be very surprised at what turns out to be an exciting, interesting and fulfilling career. I never thought I would be doing what I am doing now and liking it... mostly (every job has parts that suck... like moronic bosses)

[madjurgen]

Yeah, that's the plan. I want to work as an engineer with an automotive focus, but I hope to get hired at Boeing when I graduate. They will pay for 100% of school if I choose to get a masters degree. I don't know if they'll pay for an MBA, but they would pay for me to be a master of engineering, and then I'd get something like a 25-30% raise just for having higher education. And yeah, if I want to make some real money, I'll probably have to get an MBA at some point.

Theyll pay for your MBA as well. And higher education will only get you a 5-7% raise as an engineer from what Ive heard. And if youre planning on staying technical while being an engineer as opposed to going towards the business side, then MBA wont really help.

And for those of you claiming that it doesnt matter what school you go to... larger companies group schools into different tiers based on their performance in the field youre hiring into. Your starting rate is based on which tier the school you graduated from is in.

And finally, your comments were pretty decent Heeter until you started dropping stereotypes about certain professions. God knows Ive laughed at numerous sterotypes about business majors but Im not ignorant enough to start repeating them as truth.

[rwh11385]

And finally, your comments were pretty decent Heeter until you started dropping stereotypes about certain professions. God knows Ive laughed at numerous sterotypes about business majors but Im not ignorant enough to start repeating them as truth.

lol, wut?

Sorry if I feel it's not quite the same when someone is into cars, studies ME to make cars and have fun with it, and then ends up designing door handles or windshield wipers for years and years. Or after 30 years and nearing retirement you're still making sure a minivan hatch lines up right with the seal. For every powertrain engineer, there's many people doing absolute BS... and the same is true of business to a degree: for every one person doing cool shit, there's a lot just turning their wheel in the hamster cage.

Hallen, I know what you are saying about business speak. I hate it and just want people to drop it and say what's not so glamorous and more practical verbiage, but then after a while you find yourself using the same goddamn terms. One of my superiors is Dilbert's boss.

[Hallen]

lol, wut?

Sorry if I feel it's not quite the same when someone is into cars, studies ME to make cars and have fun with it, and then ends up designing door handles or windshield wipers for years and years. Or after 30 years and nearing retirement you're still making sure a minivan hatch lines up right with the seal. For every powertrain engineer, there's many people doing absolute BS... and the same is true of business to a degree: for every one person doing cool shit, there's a lot just turning their wheel in the hamster cage.

It is the problem solving and designing something that really works well under all conditions that is the satisfaction of that kind of ME job. Don't sell it short. Working on a glamorous project, like the newest M engine for example, is not always the funnest stuff. There can be more pressure, more oversight (micromanagement) and more restrictions. You can compare that to designing a window regulator that doesn't fail all the time and having the satisfaction of knowing that you did a good job with it. It is the little things sometimes that are important in job satisfaction.

There are plenty of hamster wheel jobs for sure, and every job has a bit of that built in. If you find yourself there, send your resume out and find something better.

You will find that smaller companies will mostly be a more fun place to work with fewer restrictions, more excitement... and more risk (in some ways). Big companies have a lot of "Process" (you learn to hate that word. Why can't people just get things done?), they have a lot of delays because decision makers are slow, and they provide artificial stress because we just have to announce that new gizmo prior to the end of the quarter so the stock will go up. Big corp's can also be very random and terrible at taking care of their employees. They will up and move you for some unknown random reason, they will have a RIF and the people they let go are the most productive and valuable and they keep the people who are good at "Process" and politics. There are some upsides too, especially if you are on the business side. Stock options, upward mobility, severance packages, etc, that small companies just can't offer you. Plus, generally, they will provide stability where a lot of small companies are on a shoe string all the time.

Anywho, take it for what it's worth. :D

[h0lmes]

lol, wut?

Sorry if I feel it's not quite the same when someone is into cars, studies ME to make cars and have fun with it, and then ends up designing door handles or windshield wipers for years and years. Or after 30 years and nearing retirement you're still making sure a minivan hatch lines up right with the seal. For every powertrain engineer, there's many people doing absolute BS... and the same is true of business to a degree: for every one person doing cool shit, there's a lot just turning their wheel in the hamster cage.

Hallen, I know what you are saying about business speak. I hate it and just want people to drop it and say what's not so glamorous and more practical verbiage, but then after a while you find yourself using the same goddamn terms. One of my superiors is Dilbert's boss.

I agree with you Heeter but you need to get off your high horse. You could easily end up in the same position as the people making door handles.

[rwh11385]

I agree with you Heeter but you need to get off your high horse. You could easily end up in the same position as the people making door handles.

Maybe some people, but others are pro-active in their careers. I got a job that was doing a lot of "door handle designing", and I said it was a waste of time and replaced it with a more efficient system to save the company money (my time) and give me more freedom to do more interesting work that I enjoy more. I love what I do and doubt I'll end up pigeon-holed in something I don't.

If I went to a huge company with nailed down job roles, I might be trapped, but following good advice I received I chose a small company with flexibility to alter roles around the people in them to best suit the company and the employee. (Look to Hallen's post)

[rwh11385]

Just out of curiosity,are people from the PNW thought of as weed smokers by the rest of the country? I know Seattle is labeled as coffee lovers and computer nerds, but I don't know about weed.

There's a thread somewhere that talks about the PNW stigma. The weed is moving up the coast and a good compliment for the bored affluent PNW teen. All the emo, attention-whoring kids have more time and money than they know what to do with, and drugs is a venue they can find a solution in.

That actually is pretty related to the article.

You can find similar issues in other parts of the country, but they are pockets / communities, not regions.

[uofom3]

There's a thread somewhere that talks about the PNW stigma. The weed is moving up the coast and a good compliment for the bored affluent PNW teen. All the emo, attention-whoring kids have more time and money than they know what to do with, and drugs is a venue they can find a solution in.

That actually is pretty related to the article.

You can find similar issues in other parts of the country, but they are pockets / communities, not regions.

pot really is a major thing up here. heeter has it backwards though.. the pot flows down from up here to everywhere else.

I was in philadelphia a few years ago and told some chick at a store I was from oregon when she asked... she got all excited and was like 'omigod! you guys have the best pot!' the stereotypes are real.

old hippies don't die... they move to oregon.

[cferb]

I honestly think that the degree really doesn't matter all that much, it's more of a proof that you can learn.

Agreed. Just having a degree is more important than what it's in. Of course there are careers that you need a specific degree. Case in point, I'm majoring in Engineering, I wouldn't get that job with a Sociology degree. But it should be easy enough to make a living with any degree, you just can't be picky about what job you want.