home improvement

[Wiglaf]

I opened up a pretty big can of worms on the 3rd floor of my house.. totally gutted at the moment.

we go upstairs...















If you're having trouble putting those together and it's worth a 20M d/l to ya, then here's a tour!

http://www.deskbreaker.com/wiglaf/images/house/3rd%20floor/MVI_1728.avi

overall goal is to have a bedroom+large closet on the side w/ the smaller windows, a bathroom in the middle (where the duct is coming out of the floor) and then the rest will be generic open living space. This is similar to before, it was like a secondary tv room.

I need to insulate.. and before that I have to move the rafters up 3ft or so, so that they clear the big windows. bathroom and bedroom framed in, electrical and plumbing stubbed in, radiator pipes, and.. i think that's everything i have to do before getting the bitch insulated.
Jan and Feb are the worst months here so I really need to kick it in high-gear to get it insulated.
Hard to get this done in a timely manner when working full time.. and the e30's need time too.. it was warm when we started.

[e30this]

I know what thats like, Im about to redo the front living room in my house in Jan.
Im not looking forward to it since its horse hair plaster and slats just like you had. So I know its going to make a big mess.

Looks like your off to a good start. Since your going to move your collar ties up so your ceilings are higher I would install the new 2x10 before you pull the old ones out.
Looking forward to seeing the process.

[blunttech]

nice man, thats an old school house. maybe 1930's? or 40"s? i love doing that shit but i hate just getting going. once i start its fine. thatll be nice when done

[Dave]

I'd guess 1920s. My first house was a 1920s built Sears Catalog home. Doors, door frames and the stair treads looked identical to those.



Ours had an addition put on it in the 1950s on the back that added a kitchen, a first floor bath and another upstairs bedroom. Basement had a garage added to it.

When we bought it in 1996, it was more than $639.00 though.

Are you running ductwork up there, or will it have its own HVAC unit?

[atomic]

FYI Just in case:

I would suggest when raising the ceiling rafters (aka collar ties) that you use a minimum of a 2x6 instead of the 2x4 that they are now. The reason is a 2x4 will not hold the weight of drywall and the way it is structured now is fine for bracing (which is what it is only being used for).

Also DO NOT GET OVER ZEALOUS and cut all of the 2x4 rafters out at once. Establish the height you are wanting and setup a rotary laser (to insure a level ceiling height) and just take one out at a time and replace with the new 2x6+ rafter (collar tie) at the desired height. The reason is they are now bracing and holding together the ENTIRE roof structure and if you go cutting them all out you run the risk of a serious structure failure and the roof moving/shifting/coming down on you.

Also when re-insulating the underside of the roof structure that you use rafter vents ( http://www.pinkbuilder.ca/pdf/pub19.html ) as well to allow airflow from the attic area so you do not COOK your roof behind the areas where the insulation will be installed.


:up: :up:

:drink:

[e30this]

FYI Just in case:

I would suggest when raising the ceiling rafters (aka collar ties) that you use a minimum of a 2x6 instead of the 2x4 that they are now. The reason is a 2x4 will not hold the weight of drywall and the way it is structured now is fine for bracing (which is what it is only being used for).

Thats one of the reason I suggested a 2x8 or a 2x10 because your suppose to use 5/8 drywall on the ceilings.


When we pick our roofs on the houses we build we usually measure up 8 feet and 5/8's at one end of the room and the same on the other end and snap a chalk line. Thats only if it is going to be used as a living space.
Then we set the collar ties right on the line. Then you dont have a wavy ceiling measuring from floor to ceiling all the way down and have the ceiling get all uneven on ya.
We usually put some liquid nails on the board before we nail it up.

Everyone does something different. Just trying to offer what I know.

[mbonder]

Get some insulation in that place before you freeze!! I can't stand plaster and lathe, its such a messy job clearing that shit out of there. Definitely put in your new collar tie before cutting the old one out, since you're raising them you shouldn't have any interference when nailing the new ones in.

[Wiglaf]

Get some insulation in that place before you freeze!! I can't stand plaster and lathe, its such a messy job clearing that shit out of there. Definitely put in your new collar tie before cutting the old one out, since you're raising them you shouldn't have any interference when nailing the new ones in.

that's the plan! I agree, putting the new rafters in before yanking the old ones out. I actually have a lot of bolts laying around, was thinking of bolting up maybe 6 or so of them for added unfuckwithability. That always seems to work with the furniture i made.

as for the roof vents, I was close to bailing on them and using spray foam in the whole place.. but an insulation contractor talked me out of it last night. (been getting some pro quotes just to try and price this out).
I figured that it would be fine in the summer since foam is airtight, it won't draft up to the top and bake the roof like with fiberglass. Know what? the vents have nothing to do with overheating, they are for WINTER.

Ideally you want a temperature difference of zero on both sides of the shingles. If temperature conducts through the insulation and melts snow, it will drain out and then re-freeze as it gets more towards the outside. This process doesn't take long to create ice dams and lift the shingles, potentially causing water to back up all the way under the shingles.. and leave them with that ghetto wavy look like mine already have. THIS is the reason that you need to vent to see a 30 year shingle actually last 30 years.

So I'm bailing on the foam idea. the shit is too expensive anyways.. part of me hates throwing out all that fiberglass just to put more back in.. but it's all in the execution. They had no vapor barriers, drafts shoot right through the walls.

Also, my house is 100 years old this year!! 1908 baby. It was balloon construction, I'll be adding stops where I can to prevent inter-floor drafts.

[jakeb]

looks like our second floor... ripping out all the lath and paster is a pain. We will have the same layout as you...one big bedroom and bath. I plan to start it soon. We recently got a one piece shower unit up there. Had to come trough the second floor window.

[Wiglaf]

I still havn't made up my mind yet, but I'm back to leaning towards doing the foam insulation and NOT venting.
Unvented fiberglass will still let drafts pass internally, which lets convection happen, warmer air will make it to the top.
Since drafts will not pass through the foam, the roof surface temperature should be uniform, not hot at the top and cool at the bottom. This means that it is not necessary to vent if I do this.. leaving me with more space for higher R value and lower the cost of that venting shit.. which would inevitably add up to over $500.
Since it's such an old house, I have the luxury of not giving a fuck what the building code says on the matter.

[killa325i]

lathe and plaster FTL.. knob and tube wiring FTL
i own 2 old houses 1918/1919 and i'm remodeling the bathroom in my buddy's 1925 house...i feel your pain lol

[PhillyG]

Looks like some fucking haunted shit.

[FLUTE007]

the worst part is getting all the shit to the 3rd floor, i just took out two windows made one big one and had them deliver with a crane. worth the extra couple of bucks.

[Wiglaf]

the worst part is getting all the shit to the 3rd floor, i just took out two windows made one big one and had them deliver with a crane. Worth the extra couple of bucks.

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