Blackwater

[tofubento]

This is how I feel as well.

Your feelings are incorrect.

To fully understand to whom the PMCs answer to, you must first understand fully how our goverment works.
Once you understand the proper order of who does what and runs what, THEN you will understand who the PMCs answer to...you and I.

[Farbin Kaiber]

THEN you will understand who the PMCs answer to...you and I.

That's some Bravo Sierra explanation rite dur.

[tecks2k]

For anyone who's ever been to war, they know that BlackWater does amazing things. There would have been many more troops lost, had it not been for them in many situations.

Now as per there politics, I don't have a clue. I should as there are a decent part of our operations currently.

[tofubento]

That's some Bravo Sierra explanation rite dur.

How do you figure that?

Please explain how I am incorrect in my statement.

[Joey Link]

Your feelings are incorrect.

To fully understand to whom the PMCs answer to, you must first understand fully how our goverment works.
Once you understand the proper order of who does what and runs what, THEN you will understand who the PMCs answer to...you and I.

Can you explain it? I'd like to hear it :)

The only people that (supposedly) answer to me are my congressmen. To my knowledge, aside from funding, congress has no control over Blackwater and others.

[CorvallisBMW]

Your feelings are incorrect.

To fully understand to whom the PMCs answer to, you must first understand fully how our goverment works.
Once you understand the proper order of who does what and runs what, THEN you will understand who the PMCs answer to...you and I.

Care to enlighten us then, oh great one?

[tofubento]

Can you explain it? I'd like to hear it :)

The only people that (supposedly) answer to me are my congressmen. To my knowledge, aside from funding, congress has no control over Blackwater and others.

You almost hit it on the head.

By getting involved and letting your voice heard about blackwater and other organizations to your congress man, through that , you have control. The goverment, answers to us.

They, PMCs, do not answer ONLY to the President, infact they dont answer to him at all. Its congress and the senate that they answer, its congress and the senate that approves their funding and allows them to be over there. Just like with all the Private companies doing all the intel work for FBI/CIA.

[Joey Link]

I can't imagine their activities, missions, or even the decisions to hire them are or ever were approved by congress, but I'd love to read about it further if you have a link or something. I understand that congress votes to fund them, but have you seen an appropriations bill? There are usually hundreds of things in each one that has absolutely nothing to do with the original intent of the bill. They could be voting to fund armor for the troops and someone could slip in funding for PMC's. What do they do if they want armor for the troops but don't want to fund PMC's?

I can't find a single good argument for employing PMC's, aside from not having to be directly accountable for their actions (if that's their intent). As much as we pay those guys, why can't we train our own guys to fill the same roll? More and more it seems to me the military is just as wasteful with it's spending as any other government entity.

[Hallen]

I can't find a single good argument for employing PMC's, aside from not having to be directly accountable for their actions (if that's their intent). As much as we pay those guys, why can't we train our own guys to fill the same roll? More and more it seems to me the military is just as wasteful with it's spending as any other government entity.

1) We all know that the US will and has been directly accountable for PMC's actions. If they break the rules, they can end up in jail just like a soldier would. These are small specialty forces and they do not and cannot pose a threat to the sovereignty of the United States and are in fact under the direct control of the United States via our own military forces.

2) We can train guys to fill the role. But I explained this before. Congress will not authorize an expansion of the standing Army. That is what it would take to fulfill these roles. A soldier costs as much or more per day as these PMCs (my guess, I don't have facts on this).

3) Yes, the military is just as inefficient as any other government organization. This is especially true for implementation of new concepts and especially true with fielding new equipment. Part of that is our fault because we, as a people, can't seem to accept the fact that war is dangerous. Also, one of the main reasons that the military is inefficient about this type of thing IS Congress. Congressman use the military as a money pot for their constituents. They force untenable programs and weapon systems down the military's throat even if the military does not want the program. Congress decides who gets these big contracts by deciding what to fund and what not to fund.

I don't like PMCs (or mercs if you want to call them that) either. I think it sets a bad precedence. I think the money would be better spent in training and BASIC equipment for our troops. At the end of the day, you can't hold ground with a really cool airplane (as much as I love airplanes). You have to have boots on the ground which means soldiers in harms way. Our equipment has gotten much better over the years, but not nearly good enough or fast enough. We need to get better at that.

[Ral]

^^^agreed. And only those that have worked with them or been in the service overseas will come close to understanding the dynamics of them, as well as the purposes they serve. There's much more going on than anyone understands that's not in that world.

As for private contractors in general, they have their uses. Our training squadrons use private corporations to run simulators and perform maintenance, and it saves a lot of money and headache. However, it works because I'm in a training squadron without any classified systems currently, and we don't deploy.

I gotta go study some more ineffective military training now, excuse me.

[decay]

As much as we pay those guys, why can't we train our own guys to fill the same roll?

that's the thing, most of them already were trained to fill that role, whatever branch of spec ops they came from (sf/seals/swat/etc), and whoever they work for now (blackwater/TMG/etc).

given that, the next question is why are we paying them a lot more to do the same job?
why do we pay KBR whatever we pay them to run the motor pool and the dining facility, when the army has mechanics and cooks?

well... qui bono?

More and more it seems to me the military is just as wasteful with it's spending as any other government entity.

which begs the question of why you're surprised by it. *grin*

[Farbin Kaiber]

nail meets head in above post on what my stance is/was in this thread.