wtf is this GIVE act thing

[Julien]

While this does not meet the true definition of "fascism" it's the closest thing we've seen to it in years and the closest to it ever in this country.

And yes, Obama is using a crisis to push thru his fascist/marxist/socialist agenda.

The guy is like "Big Brother" from the book "1984" as he is on TV almost every night watching over us and repeating his mantra.

And the online Q & A session he did today? The main purpose of it was to gather email addresses. Just a big dog and pony show to gather information on the public to use when he runs again.

Obama has never accomplished anything noteworthy as an elected official. All he has done is run for the next higher office.

And now like a dog who chases cars, he has finally caught one and realizes he doesn't have a clue what to do with it and is in way over his head.

This guy is a disaster. Never could I have imagined he would go this far and this soon with his socialist/marxist agenda.

Inexperienced, dangerous, incompetent, arrogant, naive, etc...are not a good combination.

The only positive is that all the younger people who bought into the "Hope" and "Change" BS will be the ones paying for their ignorant choice to elect him for the rest of their lives thru higher taxes and thru mandatory/volunteerism/indoctrination.

And I can't even imagine what the Islamofascists who seek our demise are currently planning as Nero fiddles while Rome burns and runs around the country going on late night talk shows as if he's some kind of egotistical wannabe celebrity.

I have two nephews in the public school system and the propaganda they've been fed and are being fed is appalling.

They're not being educated, they're being indoctrinated and this new mandatory volunteerism is only going to indoctrinate even more young, impressionable children.

This is what they are doing to kids:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54tjbgJmLFg

Why are you soo angry? No happy ending lately?

[E30 Cabrio]

While this does not meet the true definition of "fascism" it's the closest thing we've seen to it in years and the closest to it ever in this country.

And yes, Obama is using a crisis to push thru his fascist/marxist/socialist agenda.

The guy is like "Big Brother" from the book "1984" as he is on TV almost every night watching over us and repeating his mantra.

And the online Q & A session he did today? The main purpose of it was to gather email addresses. Just a big dog and pony show to gather information on the public to use when he runs again.

Obama has never accomplished anything noteworthy as an elected official. All he has done is run for the next higher office.

And now like a dog who chases cars, he has finally caught one and realizes he doesn't have a clue what to do with it and is in way over his head.

This guy is a disaster. Never could I have imagined he would go this far and this soon with his socialist/marxist agenda.

Inexperienced, dangerous, incompetent, arrogant, naive, etc...are not a good combination.

The only positive is that all the younger people who bought into the "Hope" and "Change" BS will be the ones paying for their ignorant choice to elect him for the rest of their lives thru higher taxes and thru mandatory/volunteerism/indoctrination.

And I can't even imagine what the Islamofascists who seek our demise are currently planning as Nero fiddles while Rome burns and runs around the country going on late night talk shows as if he's some kind of egotistical wannabe celebrity.

I have two nephews in the public school system and the propaganda they've been fed and are being fed is appalling.

They're not being educated, they're being indoctrinated and this new mandatory volunteerism is only going to indoctrinate even more young, impressionable children.

This is what they are doing to kids:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54tjbgJmLFg

[wildstoats]

here's something to watch for with the oman. there is speculation his stimulus, which any one with a brain knows was spending for his left agenda politically, was done on purpose - it would fail to stimulate and this would lead to the need to nationalize the banks. so now we have the treasury/fed asking and planning on laws that allow it to take over businesses deemed (by who else - the government) too important to fail. THIS SHIT IS REAL

grab the banks, bailout (nationalize) the papers as is being talked about, start national yute camps and where are you?

Sorry but I'm going to have to disagree with you here. There is nothing that Obama could have done to save the banks. They have been digging their own graves for over 20 years now it was just a matter of time before their dogma of "Infinite Growth" would blow up in their faces and that is what we're witnessing right now. I see things opposite from you it seems. I see the banks and other businesses as lining up at the public funding trough for a shot at free government money which we (taxpayers) will have to subsidize. In some misguided effort to return things to "the way they were". Nevermind the fact that the old status quo was obviously unsustainable (hence the current situation!). But it's easy to see why they yearn to prop up the old system. It's what kept Wall Street execs and Politicians fat and happy and they aren't going to give that up without a fight.

[Julien]

To the nazi remarques:
The downside of the nazi regime is the oppression of jews/homosexuals/etc and the war against it's neighbors (for the creation of wealth and to propragate the "supreeme race" for the rest, the country was stronger and had a better infrastructure (like the german autobahn for instance) while the system was in place.

Now.. In which way shape or form is the current administration oppressing any ethic group? All I see, as a by-stander is a leader trying to unite america under one common goal to get through these tough times. The only idea combining the people in this effort is their love for their country, America. Imagine the benefits of a church group who has a specific task (ie cleaning up the neighborehood or helping the poor), wouldn't you see this as a postive action for the "geater good"? Now replace "church" group with "american" group...
Now, do you see the possibilities that Americans can have towards helping their beloved country and fellow Citizens?

In terms of government spending:
It is true that it is worrying how much the US's government is spending at the moment in an (so-called) effort to give the economy a jump start. No one can tell how efficient this method will be, but please stop with the Great Depression examples. If you stick by that Idea, indeed America needs a war (ie: wwII) to get the economy back on it's feet, right? Should I remind you how much spending the previous administration has put on the war in Iraq?

Lastly, this bill is only making you spend a few hours in your life with the common goal of creating a nicer place to live for you and your fellow neighbors.

You say Obama has created a Nazi regime?
I say GWB enslaved the middleclass to enrich the few ultra-rich in America!



Julien

[Hallen]

There is no doubt that the current administration is using this "crisis" to further their own agenda instead of doing what is right. I am not sure it is a conspiracy, I think it is just opportunism. It does speak very strongly about their morals though.

However, if you want to look at it from a conspiracy perspective, it would be pretty easy considering the ties of the Democratic party and Obama to Freddy, Fanny, the incredibly stupid mandates on mortgage requirements, and the defeat of every single effort to control the chaos caused by these irresponsible government edicts and to control those insane derivatives markets, to what is happening now. I don't think they are really that smart or far-sighted personally, but it would be easy to tie together. Look at who was to gain the most from those government actions and you have the people responsible. Those people just happen to be in power right now. And they are making hay while the making is good.

[Hallen]

I hope you don't think that's what I was asserting. I was just trying to point out that government statistics are best taken with a grain of salt. They have an agenda just like everyone else.

Yes, sorry about that. I made it sound like you said it wrong. Being skeptical about statistics is healthy and wise.

[mrsleeve]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

this is at the heart of this issue.

[gwb72tii]

there is already nearly 1 private sector job for every government job, be it state, fed or local. what you're left with is 1/2 of the workforce paying for the other half. this is a recipe for disaster.

here's something to watch for with the oman. there is speculation his stimulus, which any one with a brain knows was spending for his left agenda politically, was done on purpose - it would fail to stimulate and this would lead to the need to nationalize the banks. so now we have the treasury/fed asking and planning on laws that allow it to take over businesses deemed (by who else - the government) too important to fail. THIS SHIT IS REAL

this should chill every citizen- lib or conservative - to the core

grab the banks, bailout (nationalize) the papers as is being talked about, start national yute camps and where are you?

1939 germany

[wildstoats]

Low employment is bad for many obvious reasons. It signals a slowing of business revenues and a slowing economy. However, it isn't a reason to conscript young people into forced labor camps "for their own and the countries good". That's total bullshit. The government can't really employ anybody because the government doesn't make money. They take money from people who are employed. So for every government employee, you need dozens of actually employed people in the private sector. Can't you see the obvious end game here as government and government doles keep growing? Either your taxes have to go way up (lowering the incentive to work hard and produce more, downward spiral, here we come), or you have to reduce the size of government. You can't both have an increasing government size and lower taxes. You are forced to keep raising taxes to the point where it simply isn't sustainable anymore.

I hope you don't think that's what I was asserting. I was just trying to point out that government statistics are best taken with a grain of salt. They have an agenda just like everyone else.

[Hallen]

It's over 10% now. Unemployment statistics are a joke. They don't take into account people who are under-employed such as professionals working part time jobs because there are no full time positions or people who are working jobs that are well below their qualifications. Those statistics also don't factor in people who have stopped looking for work or as the government puts it "discouraged workers". At best the unemployment statistics are a measure of the number of people in the country collecting unemployment benefits. The numbers I have heard thrown around for the actual unemployment rate are more like 13-14% as of February 2009. Just food for thought.

They are always flaws in the statistics they use. You have to look at it from a relative viewpoint. In this case we have seen approximately a 5% increase in unemployment over the last year. That's bad in anybodies book.

The counter point to your assertion is that the "normal" unemployment rate runs somewhere around 5%. This is people who are moving, transitioning from school and the military, or have some other reason to be out of work. It is the "backgound noise" so to speak. I will point out that for something like the last 10 years, we have been right around that 5% mark. This means that pretty much everybody who wanted to be employed, was employed (gee, how can that be since we have shipped all our jobs overseas???).

Low employment is bad for many obvious reasons. It signals a slowing of business revenues and a slowing economy. However, it isn't a reason to conscript young people into forced labor camps "for their own and the countries good". That's total bullshit. The government can't really employ anybody because the government doesn't make money. They take money from people who are employed. So for every government employee, you need dozens of actually employed people in the private sector. Can't you see the obvious end game here as government and government doles keep growing? Either your taxes have to go way up (lowering the incentive to work hard and produce more, downward spiral, here we come), or you have to reduce the size of government. You can't both have an increasing government size and lower taxes. You are forced to keep raising taxes to the point where it simply isn't sustainable anymore.

[Hallen]

(7) A public service academy, a 4-year institution that offers a federally funded undergraduate education with a focus on training future public sector leaders.

Wow, a school to train political officers, that's outrageous. "Public Sector Leaders", that alone is enough to make this bill criminal.

Can you imagine being conscripted into one of these things and you find yourself having to clean up other peoples messes? Imagine the outrage. I am ready to start college and begin my life as a useful, productive person, but nope, I gotta go spend years cleaning gutters in some inner-city slum. I can't be a productive member of society doing that. I am just a drain on the economy. My life is on hold. I am not learning anything except that I hate doing this.

Obama and the dems have got to be stopped. This stuff is going too far. It's one thing to listen to Obama drone on in his campaign speeches about this stuff, but to see it actually make it to the floor of congress is down right terrifying.

There very well may be an armed rebellion if this current government doesn't back the fuck off.

Government is not a religion. Government cannot solve the world's ills. Government is nothing but a drain on every single person. It cannot exist without steeling from the population. Its very essence is the antithesis of freedom and free will.

Unfortunately, it is a necessary evil and it must be guarded against at all times. That is what the founders of this country understood that our current government does not. It is why we have a constitution. Pissing on the constitution like this is getting a lot of people very scared. And scared people do stupid things.

[gwb72tii]

hey i love this stuff
ever look at the data who pays taxes?

[wildstoats]

its the only ducking stat we have

HEYYYYYYY

i amde it to grease monky

Grats! Here's a present:

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t12.htm

The section labeled: "U-6" is the interesting bit. Straight from the horses mouth so to speak.

[gwb72tii]

its the only ducking stat we have

HEYYYYYYY

i amde it to grease monky

[wildstoats]

It's over 10% now. Unemployment statistics are a joke. They don't take into account people who are under-employed such as professionals working part time jobs because there are no full time positions or people who are working jobs that are well below their qualifications. Those statistics also don't factor in people who have stopped looking for work or as the government puts it "discouraged workers". At best the unemployment statistics are a measure of the number of people in the country collecting unemployment benefits. The numbers I have heard thrown around for the actual unemployment rate are more like 13-14% as of February 2009. Just food for thought.