One death panel already up and operating.

[joshh]

The patient, or whomever has power of attorney, always makes the choice. All of these decisions have to be made far in advance of death/hospice and must be fully documented. The problem is with the documentation, as many elderly patients either don't fill ut out or fill it out improperly, regardless of their wishes. Poor planning for death is a HUGE issue in medicine right now, and one I've discussed in great detail with many physicians. I've yet to encounter one who is opposed to it.

I'm all for the family and doctor of the family making the choices. As the way it should be. And it's just a
It's when an insurer or Government or anyone other than the family, family doctor or lawyers are cutting off the person from having a surgery or medications they need to live longer (specially when they are a paying customer). But this also requires the family to make a very hard and responsible choice to "do the right thing". As I witnessed last year myself.
Obama wanted a single payer. That would end up being like Canada's system of deciding who lives how long and with what operation or medication. While people die waiting to find out if they get that operation. Which still happens with our insurance as is.
He had to "compromise" with the intention that his bill will be changed eventually to fit that criteria.

[KenC]

There's nothing wrong with that? Let alone the lying...
It's equivalent to buying insurance and them letting you die.

If one implies that physician reimbursement for end-of-life planning assistance amounts to a "death panel," then they're either lying, or they're stupid.

[KenC]

That was one part of it. The other is who would be making the choice.
It wasn't misinterpreted as Obama and his boys removed it so that he could later enter it back in with his power of the pen.

The patient, or whomever has power of attorney, always makes the choice. All of these decisions have to be made far in advance of death/hospice and must be fully documented. The problem is with the documentation, as many elderly patients either don't fill ut out or fill it out improperly, regardless of their wishes. Poor planning for death is a HUGE issue in medicine right now, and one I've discussed in great detail with many physicians. I've yet to encounter one who is opposed to it.

[joshh]

That's why it makes it so funny when Obama claims there will be no death panels in Obama Care. Instead of just confronting the issue and pointing out that it's already happening. Lying is the worst thing to pull. But then the other side will pounce no matter what he says...and vise versa.

If there is no easy solution, and you're right there isn't, what are you complaining about exactly?

Can one be wrong if there is no right?

There's nothing wrong with that? Let alone the lying...
It's equivalent to buying insurance and them letting you die.

[joshh]

That's not what the so-called "Death Panel" issue/argument was about. Opponents of Obama's health care bill (mis)interpretted specific Medicare reimbursement for physicians for assistance in end-of-life planning as the government influencing physicians to persuade them to file DNR/DNI orders.

That was one part of it. The other is who would be making the choice.
It wasn't misinterpreted as Obama and his boys removed it so that he could later enter it back in with his power of the pen.

[KenC]

That's why it makes it so funny when Obama claims there will be no death panels in Obama Care. Instead of just confronting the issue and pointing out that it's already happening. Lying is the worst thing to pull. But then the other side will pounce no matter what he says...and vise versa.

That's not what the so-called "Death Panel" issue/argument was about. Opponents of Obama's health care bill (mis)interpretted specific Medicare reimbursement for physicians for assistance in end-of-life planning as the government influencing physicians to persuade them to file DNR/DNI orders.

[Raxe]

I can agree with that idea. But I just don't see an easy solution for this situation. It starts early in life and it gets worse every year.

If there is no easy solution, and you're right there isn't, what are you complaining about exactly?

Can one be wrong if there is no right?

[joshh]

When it comes down to our people not having enough money to live, literally. Thats not right.
:blowup:

I can agree with that idea. But I just don't see an easy solution for this situation. It starts early in life and it gets worse every year.

[Need4Speed1299]

When it comes down to our people not having enough money to live, literally. Thats not right.
:blowup:

[joshh]

Dude, OHP (Oregon Health Plan) has been rationing care like this since before Bush was in office.

That's why it makes it so funny when Obama claims there will be no death panels in Obama Care. Instead of just confronting the issue and pointing out that it's already happening. Lying is the worst thing to pull. But then the other side will pounce no matter what he says...and vise versa.

[CorvallisBMW]

[KenC]

Dude, OHP (Oregon Health Plan) has been rationing care like this since before Bush was in office.

[frankenbeemer]

What mar1t1me said + Troll fail.

[mar1t1me]

Well, all I got is that as long as the limited resource called money has anything to do with healthcare and disease treatment, this sort of thing will happen.

As to the Knight in Shining Pill Armour, aka Genentech......you do see that they looked at this as cheap publicity? Tarceva costs end users about $125 a day. $30,000-$60,000 a treatment cycle. Had there not been publicity generated, I seriously doubt Genentech would be throwing medicine at people. Love to know what answer they give the next poor schlub that calls them looking for a handout.

No good way to do cases like this in a system based on currency. It's cheaper to help people die than to spend $100K+ for an extra few years. Sad fact, but in the end, if you get seriously ill, just as in the Dark Ages, you are seriously fucked. No government or for-profit entity on Earth has ever found a way around that. Only seriously wealthy people have ever gotten exactly the treatment they needed, cost be damned. Interestingly, they don't live forever either.

[joshh]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70KcaXbkJw4

And hey what do you know, right here in the state of the Red Square.
Nope, no death panels with Obama care. These wont exist with Obama care.....nothing to see here folks!
Money over patients. No need to point out insurance companies do this because we already know that. But Obama Care didn't even factor that problem in when passing his "reform".

Oh those EVIL pharmaceutical companies.