The Fiscal cliff

[rwh11385]

I don't know anyone foolish enough to think increasing taxes on the middle class and businesses in this economy is a good idea.

Specially when Obama and Democrats have repeated time and time again that they are such a friend to the middle class. Not so much it seems.

So you are a fan of robbing from the Social Security trust fund to follow Keynesian strategies? The code should be fixed, simplified, and include a VAT, not following the stimulus Keynesian bullshit forever.

They aren't increasing taxes as much as letting them go back to where they were before the supposedly TEMPORARY payroll tax holiday was put into place. But that's the problem of politics and suggesting temporary measures, uneducated and uninformed people complain about raising things back to where they were when the deadline is reached, even if that was the aim in the first place.

http://money.cnn.com/2010/12/15/news/economy/payroll_tax_holiday/index.htm

The tax legislation that President Obama signed into law on Friday, will for one year reduce workers' Social Security taxes. Workers pay 6.2% on their first $106,800 of wages. The tax cut deal will reduce that to 4.2%.

That payroll tax "holiday" will replace the Making Work Pay credit, which expires Dec. 31 and was part of the 2009 Recovery Act.

As a result, 51 million households -- about a third of the total -- will be out an average of $210 compared with this year, according to the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center.

The payroll holiday was less than Making Work Pay which was less than Bush's stimulus checks.

The Making Work Pay credit wasn't much different from the Bush Economic Stimulus Package which gave everyone $600. And the Making Work Pay credit was part of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act [aka $831 billion Stimulus] http://www.irs.gov/uac/The-Making-Work-Pay-Tax-Credit

And it's all Keynesian. Only at least the stimulus checks took from the government's income tax revenues, instead of making the future situation of social security even more troubling. It's kinda like not wanting to add to the deficit problem by robbing from the future retiree's fund.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/12/the-most-important-thing-missing-from-the-proposed-fiscal-cliff-deal/266737/#

Making Work Pay was the one stimulus tax credit that didn't survive past 2010. It mimicked the payroll tax cut, except it worked through the income tax, so it didn't deplete the Social Security Trust Fund.

the 13 bucks a week in your pocket at the end of the week was a joke when it was implemented, going back to not having that 13 bucks is more insult than injury

Yeah, Obama took to Twitter and talked about $40/paycheck to promote its extension, but focused of course on the benefit to the people now instead of the cost to the country's future and particularly future retirees.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/44/post/president-obama-makes-statement-on-twitter-and-at-white-house-for-40dollars-campaign-on-payroll-tax-cut/2011/12/22/gIQAvvEQBP_blog.html

http://www.whitehouse.gov/40dollars

Obviously some people were short-sighted enough to support it.

[joshh]

the 13 bucks a week in your pocket at the end of the week was a joke when it was implemented, going back to not having that 13 bucks is more insult than injury

I feel the charts and graphs being pulled up...lol.
Nickel and diming us is what they're good at... This tax increase will hit businesses more than the middle class. The payroll tax is a 2% increase.

The good thing is the Democrats get what they want now, so they have no more excuses. Well we know they will always have excuses but they will have less now. Next they'll whine that Republicans stalled too long and that they needed tax increases for 250k and above....

[vert_this]

its just a ponzi scheme (tax payers are the investors) and they have to continue to get approval to fund it.

[mrsleeve]

the 13 bucks a week in your pocket at the end of the week was a joke when it was implemented, going back to not having that 13 bucks is more insult than injury

[joshh]

I don't know anyone foolish enough to expect us to keep robbing from Social Security into 2013, but I guess some clueless people may be shocked by the payroll tax holiday not being extended again. I thought the first extension was stupid, irresponsible, and Keynesian.

I don't know anyone foolish enough to think increasing taxes on the middle class and businesses in this economy is a good idea.

Specially when Obama and Democrats have repeated time and time again that they are such a friend to the middle class. Not so much it seems.

[rwh11385]

I guess the Democrats and Obama made an oversight....or not. Something even you lefties can read. Yup, taxes on the middle class set to go up.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_1929638.html

I don't know anyone foolish enough to expect us to keep robbing from Social Security into 2013, but I guess some clueless people may be shocked by the payroll tax holiday not being extended again. I thought the first extension was stupid, irresponsible, and Keynesian.

[joshh]

I guess the Democrats and Obama made an oversight....or not. Something even you lefties can read. Yup, taxes on the middle class set to go up.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/01/payroll-tax-cut-2013_n_1929638.html

[mrsleeve]

^
Doubtful

and by least productive they mean only passed 15XX piece's of legislation totaling many thousands of convoluted counter productive pages of BS that is still being interpreted as to what they mean and how to implement them (no I am not just talking about O care)

As opposed to the last 2 congress's passing 17XX pieces of similar mumbo jumbo

[rwh11385]

They scrape by when they couldn't work together until the last possible moment, just like the budget that got pushed back until the final deadline and the debt ceiling which almost made the country default. Entice panic and upset the market, only to not really accomplish anything in the end and make everyone less confident in their ability to do anything.

http://gawker.com/5972400/we-will-avoid-the-fiscal-cliff-because-the-members-of-the-house-are-tired-and-want-to-go-home

An easy way to avoid being terrible at your job is to not procrastinate so much that you force yourself to use being tired and wanting to go home as an excuse. Of course, the members of the House — and Congress at large — weren't "procrastinating" as much as they were "dangling the fate of our nation and the lives of essentially powerless citizens in egotistical and craven attempts at leveraging political power," but let's not split hairs.

This current Congress is the least productive since they started keeping records because, like lazy college students, they — well, okay, Republicans — have no real desire to get shit done. Now the House is tired and it's time for them to go home. Here's your bill. Sorry that's it late, professor, it won't happen again.

Maybe the incoming class will be more apt to work together, but I doubt it and won't hold my breath.

And running through what my 2012 taxes look like, we have a stupidly convoluted tax code and maybe if they spend some time between now and the next deadline they might be able to work it up to an actual solution - not just a bandaid.

[mrsleeve]

^

You expected anything different

[herbivor]

So after all that, it looks like no real fiscal problems were solved. They just kicked the can down the road. Why am I not surprised?

[Wschnitz]

Happy fiscal cliff you all!

[Farbin Kaiber]

I was passed this link from a heavy progressive on another forum I'm on. One of tge writters is his father. Pretty good read, thought I'd pass it along again. http://www.capitalasmoney.com

[slammin.e28]

Seriously, fuck Congress.

I already pay too much in taxes.

[rwh11385]

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/d478bd92-4872-11e2-a6b3-00144feab49a.html#axzz2FLOJNlwG

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/movement-seen-in-fiscal-cliff-talks-as-boehner-offers-revenue-boost/2012/12/16/990c5b2c-47e8-11e2-8af9-9b50cb4605a7_story.html

Let's hope they can resolve their differences and clear up the uncertainty in the business environment due to idiots running Congress.