Another thing Sleeve and I probably agree on...

[BraveUlysses]

I'm glad that the BLM is completely blameless in this regard, I was worried it might besmirch it's reputation as a paragon of bureaucratic efficiency.

Sweet strawman, thanks great post god bless.

[frankenbeemer]

If you're grazing in an environment so incredibly resource-poor that it takes 100 acres to feed 1 single animal, the problem is where you chose to do your grazing. Not the government, not the weather, or anything else. It's like opening a snow-cone stand at the North Pole. Not gonna last long.

Hogwash. That snow-cone stand has been doing OK for about 100 years.

[frankenbeemer]

Looks like this shithead should have just paid what he's obligated to pay. Good job rationalizing it though!

I'm glad that the BLM is completely blameless in this regard, I was worried it might besmirch it's reputation as a paragon of bureaucratic efficiency.

[BraveUlysses]

Looks like BLM paid $966k to a wrangler to round up the animals. About he same amount of money they are claiming these guys owe. Also reports of them damaging land, tearing up water holes and fences, as well as killing prized bulls and cows.

Looks like this shithead should have just paid what he's obligated to pay. Good job rationalizing it though!

[Vedubin01]

No, the reason the other ranchers in the area have left is because southern Nevada is a TERRIBLE fucking place to raise livestock. Have you ever driven in to Vegas from the north? This guys lives 70 miles north of Vegas, and it's a desolate desert wasteland of absolute fuck-all. It rains 1" a year, nothing bigger than a weed can grow without irrigation, and it's 120F all year long. It's woefully inefficient to raise cattle in that kind of environment, hence why most ranches don't survive.

Actually I have, and its worked for this rancher for over 150 years. Have you ever been though TX and Ok where a lot of cattle are ranched?

Pretty much the same land.


Looks like BLM paid $966k to a wrangler to round up the animals. About he same amount of money they are claiming these guys owe. Also reports of them damaging land, tearing up water holes and fences, as well as killing prized bulls and cows.

[CorvallisBMW]

his deal is that his family has been raising cattle since the late 1800's. In 1934 the gov. set up the Taylor Grazing act that granted permits for people to use public land to raise cattle.

He is the last Rancher of his kind in the area. All other ranchers have been driven out or bankrupted due the federal government.

His stance is that his family has had claim and the rights to graze that land well before the Taylor act. Grandfathered in... And he is making a stand

No, the reason the other ranchers in the area have left is because southern Nevada is a TERRIBLE fucking place to raise livestock. Have you ever driven in to Vegas from the north? This guys lives 70 miles north of Vegas, and it's a desolate desert wasteland of absolute fuck-all. It rains 1" a year, nothing bigger than a weed can grow without irrigation, and it's 120F all year long. It's woefully inefficient to raise cattle in that kind of environment, hence why most ranches don't survive.

Yes, if his neighbor was a left wing fanatic who contracted with him then used the enormous resources of the government to abrogate that contract.

You're saying the government of the US is a left-wing fanatic? methinks you need to revisit the political spectrum. If we're a left-wing fanatic, what would you consider anyone (namely: the entire industrialized world) to the left of us?

He signed a legal contract which is still in effect. He chose to break the terms of that contract, and the Feds took him to court over it. The courts ruled (multiple times) that the contract still applied, and that he was still bound by it's terms. Which makes total sense, as you don't get to just ignore the bits of a signed contract that you happen to dislike. If he didn't like the contract, he shouldn't have signed.

The Constitution of the United States confers full power on the Federal Government to maintain and Perpetuate its existence, and whensoever any portion of the States, or people thereof attempt to secede from the Federal Union, or forcibly resist the Execution of its laws, the Federal Government may, by warrant of the Constitution, employ armed force in compelling obedience to its Authority.

That is fascinating. Written in 1864, I wonder what prompted this prohibition on secession?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War

I am aware of how much land the feds own in the west, I live there.

Next I guess you dont understand how much land is necessary to graze 1 cow in that kind of habitat. I have a friend that has a small ranch in NM, he has told me you need at least 50ac PER HEAD on a good damp year and upwards of 100ac PER HEAD in a drought year to sustain you animals. When the feds will not allow grazing on BLM or NFS land or refuse to allow you to renew your permitting (see my link) what are you supposed to do. Yup go bankrupt and lose your lively hood....................

See my above post. If you're grazing in an environment so incredibly resource-poor that it takes 100 acres to feed 1 single animal, the problem is where you chose to do your grazing. Not the government, not the weather, or anything else. It's like opening a snow-cone stand at the North Pole. Not gonna last long.

[BraveUlysses]

"Put all the women up front" - a coward

http://youtu.be/cllweBGE3Ak?t=1m32s

[BraveUlysses]

I am aware of how much land the feds own in the west, I live there.

Next I guess you dont understand how much land is necessary to graze 1 cow in that kind of habitat. I have a friend that has a small ranch in NM, he has told me you need at least 50ac PER HEAD on a good damp year and upwards of 100ac PER HEAD in a drought year to sustain you animals. When the feds will not allow grazing on BLM or NFS land or refuse to allow you to renew your permitting (see my link) what are you supposed to do. Yup go bankrupt and lose your lively hood....................

So you're saying he should have gotten out of the business instead of racking up millions of dollars of unpaid fees? I agree.

Crying to get militia retards to engage in a standoff when the government finally decides to get back some of the money he's been withholding is not a good plan.

I don't care that his family has been working this land for 100+ years, because it's not his land. Furthermore he doesn't want to pay what he's obligated to, has resisted paying it back after courts have judged against him.

I guess it goes to show you and other posters will defend freeloaders.

[mrsleeve]

I dunno, maybe you could just educate yourself on the subject instead of making 3-4 clueless posts in this thread? Maybe I expect too much.

The land is owned and managed by the federal government. Something like 70% of nevada's land is federally owned.



They aren't taking his livelihood per se; they are seizing his property and selling it to pay back the fees he owes, which was the result of a court order since he refused to pay his fees.
:

I am aware of how much land the feds own in the west, I live there.

Next I guess you dont understand how much land is necessary to graze 1 cow in that kind of habitat. I have a friend that has a small ranch in NM, he has told me you need at least 50ac PER HEAD on a good damp year and upwards of 100ac PER HEAD in a drought year to sustain you animals. When the feds will not allow grazing on BLM or NFS land or refuse to allow you to renew your permitting (see my link) what are you supposed to do. Yup go bankrupt and lose your lively hood....................

[BraveUlysses]

his deal is that his family has been raising cattle since the late 1800's. In 1934 the gov. set up the Taylor Grazing act that granted permits for people to use public land to raise cattle.

He is the last Rancher of his kind in the area. All other ranchers have been driven out or bankrupted due the federal government.

His stance is that his family has had claim and the rights to graze that land well before the Taylor act. Grandfathered in... And he is making a stand

1998 called and it wants you to go read the judgment from the court and report back.

[frankenbeemer]

The Constitution of the United States confers full power on the Federal Government to maintain and Perpetuate its existence, and whensoever any portion of the States, or people thereof attempt to secede from the Federal Union, or forcibly resist the Execution of its laws, the Federal Government may, by warrant of the Constitution, employ armed force in compelling obedience to its Authority.

That is fascinating. Written in 1864, I wonder what prompted this prohibition on secession?

[Vedubin01]

his deal is that his family has been raising cattle since the late 1800's. In 1934 the gov. set up the Taylor Grazing act that granted permits for people to use public land to raise cattle.

He is the last Rancher of his kind in the area. All other ranchers have been driven out or bankrupted due the federal government.

His stance is that his family has had claim and the rights to graze that land well before the Taylor act. Grandfathered in... And he is making a stand

[BraveUlysses]

then you must like to go hungry then, I am fairly sure its kinda hard to have a job such as yours and tend to growing and raising your ALL of your own food needs, in either hong kong or SoCal.

That and if this is Clark County Owned land, then why are the feds involved anyway??? I have been too busy lately to really keep up with this hence my earlier cornfuzzelment with a similar goings on.

I dunno, maybe you could just educate yourself on the subject instead of making 3-4 clueless posts in this thread? Maybe I expect too much.

The land is owned and managed by the federal government. Something like 70% of nevada's land is federally owned.

I agree with you on almost all points.

The only reason I support what these people did is because they stopped the government from taking his livelihood. I'm no friend to ranchers or farmers, but if they government is owed money then they have an obligation to pursue it through the courts. The government doesn't tend to make up tax obligations for individuals, so I reckon old Cliven does owe something.

They aren't taking his livelihood per se; they are seizing his property and selling it to pay back the fees he owes, which was the result of a court order since he refused to pay his fees.

This man is an idiot who unironically claims he doesn't recognize the federal government's authority and speaks to state's rights, but he's too fucking stupid to have read his state's own constitution:

All political power is inherent in the people. Government is instituted for the protection, security and benefit of the people; and they have the right to alter or reform the same whenever the public good may require it. But the Paramount Allegiance of every citizen is due to the Federal Government in the exercise of all its Constitutional powers as the same have been or may be defined by the Supreme Court of the United States; and no power exists in the people of this or any other State of the Federal Union to dissolve their connection therewith or perform any act tending to impair, subvert, or resist the Supreme Authority of the government of the United States. The Constitution of the United States confers full power on the Federal Government to maintain and Perpetuate its existence, and whensoever any portion of the States, or people thereof attempt to secede from the Federal Union, or forcibly resist the Execution of its laws, the Federal Government may, by warrant of the Constitution, employ armed force in compelling obedience to its Authority.

[frankenbeemer]

If he had been letting his cattle illegally graze on his neighbors land, and that land was privately owned by another rancher, would all these right-wing fanatics still have supported him in his efforts to steal land rights that didn't belong to him?

Yes, if his neighbor was a left wing fanatic who contracted with him then used the enormous resources of the government to abrogate that contract.

[einhander]

Do you sustain your life off nothing but air? Big Ag or not, all food, even the expensive boutique organic fair-trade stuff, comes from farms and ranches.

I should have rephrased that: I'm no friend to commercial farms and meat producers.