Gary Johnson

[DEV0 E30]

There is a reason why I'm still registered as an independent voter.

It's been something like 100+ years since a 3rd party candidate has won a presidential election - when speaking to an older couple recently who identify as libertarians themselves they didn't even know who Gary Johnson is, this of course is no surprise to me really. They are informed but not really that informed since they get the news that most people subscribe to.

I have to ask - what would it take for Gary or any third party candidate to have a fighting chance for this election? Sure, he's gaining traction with younger voters as internet campaigning helps there, but what could really get his name out there to others? How could he get real coverage in the current media? So many people believe that a third party candidate vote is throwing it away, but realistically what can be done to not make that the case.

[marshallnoise]

Hard to really know with trump because his stated views literally change with the wind.

Hillary you can be assured is more than willing to use the military to it's full capacity, which seems to be something that military guys typically like and approve of.

I don't think following Democrats into hamstrung military actions is a recipe for the armed service's happiness.

[BraveUlysses]

FWIW most of my friends that are in the military are scared to death, petrified actually of hilldog becoming CinC and are not big fans of the idea of trump either, but in their minds he would be the slightly lesser of the 2 evils

Hard to really know with trump because his stated views literally change with the wind.

Hillary you can be assured is more than willing to use the military to it's full capacity, which seems to be something that military guys typically like and approve of.

[Dozyproductions]

Well the best way to know if a political theory "works" or not is to try and identify a working example somewhere in the world. So think of all of the world's countries, and identify which ones are leading with respect to environmental protection/preservation. Are any of them doing it entirely through "free market environmentalism", where the government plays zero role? Or are they doing it through rules and regulations to prevent environmental exploitation and degradation? I think you'll find an answer fairly quickly.

The same principle applies for "libertarian" government. Can anyone name a current country that is successfully operating in a small-government libertarian format? I can think of lots of countries with very limited government size and roles, but they're all 3rd world countries and far from what I'd consider successful. Similarly all of the world's most successful/powerful/wealthy/high-standard-of-living countries are nowhere close to libertarian, and all rely on strong governments to provide services to their citizens.

It comes down to practice vs theory. Theory is great, but if it cannot work (or does not exist) in practice, then it's not very applicable, is it?

Interesting. Once power is given, it isn't so easily given back. I'd think that using 'there is no living example' argument is a bit weak by itself but you have a point. My belief is that pure liberalism and libertarianism are both flawed for today's age. Liberalism has a way of representing fascism or collectivism an libertarianism can head towards corporate tyranny that could overshadow any government's. Our founding fathers were aware of both.

It's a catch 22 by now. We all have seen the 60 minutes or those investigative reporters 'go behind the scenes' of who is actually writing the laws. You see that our senators and congressmen are going in rooms with lobbyists and, being generous here, they hash it out together. So when we want more regulation... so do those industries that are about to be newly regulated. Anything that is coming out of Washington, that is told to be good for the people, must be exponentially good for business.

To cut to the chase, my parents lived in communist Poland and from second hand, I know it enough to be leaning for a more Gary Johnson candidate. This is why I don't like things like the EU, UN and certain trade deals and happenings in the US. The problem with being a libertarian, is that as long as money is king, no political system (beyond an authoritarian) can work in this day and age.

Footnote: Environmental libertarianism, theoretically, can work under the idea of property rights. Polluting one part of the stream or air is lowering the value of that same natural resource for others. That would be, and supposedly should still be one of the main functions of government.

^^^ well, my agreement with you is mostly based on the totality of your presence on this forum. I'm actually a registered Libertarian so I like the way you think.

In my experience, Service members in the United States have great deference for Constitutional authority. Whoever takes the oath of office as President is the C-in-C.

FWIW most of my friends that are in the military are scared to death, petrified actually of hilldog becoming CinC and are not big fans of the idea of trump either, but in their minds he would be the slightly lesser of the 2 evils

Hmmm. Interesting you say that 2761377. There has to be point that the DoD steps in on grounds of defending the constitution. Who makes that decision? Just thinking about it makes your head spin! Great movie about that by the way and I implore you to watch it. Starring Kirk Douglas; 7 Days in May.

[mrsleeve]

FWIW most of my friends that are in the military are scared to death, petrified actually of hilldog becoming CinC and are not big fans of the idea of trump either, but in their minds he would be the slightly lesser of the 2 evils

[2761377]

^^^ well, my agreement with you is mostly based on the totality of your presence on this forum. I'm actually a registered Libertarian so I like the way you think.

In my experience, Service members in the United States have great deference for Constitutional authority. Whoever takes the oath of office as President is the C-in-C.

[Dozyproductions]

Sorry, but while I mostly agree with your point of view the proper usage of the bolded phrase is important enough to call you out.

Notice the caps, in addition to the proper spelling. the men who have served in the Corps deserve to have the name used correctly.

Thank You.

Thanks man. Viewed and edited. Living in San Diego, it's good to know these things.

I have to ask, which part did you agree. Where you in the services? If so, and if a libertarian were to come aboard, what do you think the men and women serving think about that? We can already guess what the pentagon would think... They'd be like, "hey CIA, can you do the thing you did with the jfk dude?"

[2761377]

There was a former general for the Marine Corps (between 1898-1931), Smedley Butler who wrote the book, 'War is a Racket'.... snip

Sorry, but while I mostly agree with your point of view the proper usage of the bolded phrase is important enough to call you out.

Notice the caps, in addition to the proper spelling. the men who have served in the Corps deserve to have the name used correctly.

Thank You.

[Dozyproductions]

That's what I thought too. It's SO easy to pick apart the lies mainstream candidates make but some how people want to gravitate towards the straws some one is picking over genuine candidates like this. Still need scrutiny though!

I really hope Trump has another IDGAF moment and pressures GJ to be on the debate along side him and hillary ;)

[BraveUlysses]

I'm not going to disagree with the fiscals of that link but it seems pretty thin--the whole "saddled every citizen" with x dollars bit is pretty outlandish, it's written like someone stuck them with a credit card bill that will be due soon (hint: it's not).

[Dozyproductions]

Clear Channel is about to go bankrupt though. And that's a great thing for radio. That is the way the free market is supposed to work.

Really? Thanks for that, will have to read up on it.

Guess this Gary Johnson kept it real while being Governor. I know the native american's got some gambling rights over his tenure.


Did stumble upon this though. No idea about the validity of this information. Is there anyone from NM on r3v that wants to say something about the guy.

https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=210816

[marshallnoise]

deregulation is a double-edged sword at times. Having witnessed it first hand in Radio Broadcasting..

When they dereg'd the industry in '96, it opened the door for the media giants to take over the industry (Clear Channel, CBS..etc.) which resulted in centralization of content and the loss of regionalized programming.

20 years later, the industry is essentially dead.

But then again, maybe this is a good thing. It's become so unprofitable to own/operate a radio station with a lot of overhead, that the major conglomerates are shedding smaller market stations like bad pennies. They are being picked up and ran again by local interest. One of my former Program Directors at KUPL here in Portland actually left Dial Global and moved back to Longview and purchased several stations there. He's living out his dream in his home town.

So maybe it did work out in the end?

Clear Channel is about to go bankrupt though. And that's a great thing for radio. That is the way the free market is supposed to work.

[CorvallisBMW]

I identify with a lot Libertarian principles, but I just can't get behind Free Market Environmentalism... Anyone want to convince me that it works?

Well the best way to know if a political theory "works" or not is to try and identify a working example somewhere in the world. So think of all of the world's countries, and identify which ones are leading with respect to environmental protection/preservation. Are any of them doing it entirely through "free market environmentalism", where the government plays zero role? Or are they doing it through rules and regulations to prevent environmental exploitation and degradation? I think you'll find an answer fairly quickly.

The same principle applies for "libertarian" government. Can anyone name a current country that is successfully operating in a small-government libertarian format? I can think of lots of countries with very limited government size and roles, but they're all 3rd world countries and far from what I'd consider successful. Similarly all of the world's most successful/powerful/wealthy/high-standard-of-living countries are nowhere close to libertarian, and all rely on strong governments to provide services to their citizens.

It comes down to practice vs theory. Theory is great, but if it cannot work (or does not exist) in practice, then it's not very applicable, is it?

[BobombETA]

I identify with a lot Libertarian principles, but I just can't get behind Free Market Environmentalism... Anyone want to convince me that it works?

[Dozyproductions]

^you bring up a lot of good points and I highly doubt there will be any meaningful cuts to defense spending. we're not getting a good value for what we spend, nor are the human costs worth it.

There was a former general for the Marine Corps (between 1898-1931), Smedley Butler who wrote the book, 'War is a Racket'. He described that our foreign policy, the reason why his men died were the means to the end of making money for the few. Yes, how I'm writing it is overly simplistic but hearing things like this, which is just scratching the surface, begs cynicism.



Real libertarianism, imo, would take a full on revolution for us to implement. An entire reboot in how people think and then a reboot on how those new ideals are implemented. Otherwise we will be stuck with the cultural collectivism that we're stuck with today.

I've listened to him during a Stossel Libertarian debate. There were a lot of 'we'll figure it out' answers but at least the honesty was there.