Save the Wheels Photographers

[Ether-D]

I love my imaginary, fake, inauthentic, $400 set of wheels. I buy store brand bread, too.

[agent]

Comparing this discussion on wheels to the reproduction of OEM gaskets by other companies is irrelevant because the gaskets used on certain engines MUST be exactly the same or they won't fit/work. Wheels on the other hand DO NOT have to be the exact same design to function properly.

Victor Reinz and Uro Parts (among others) make gaskets. They fit and they work, yet the commonly accepted truth about their fitment and quality is to spend a few dollars more and buy Genuine BMW.

[Thizzelle]

where can I get 17" 4 lug alpina wheels

[Cabriolet]

best post NA

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showpost.php?p=3952873&postcount=1628

esp since i would never rock rep wheels.

fake it till you make it, is never an option.

[blasphemy101]

...I think that concludes they only want the look. That leads me to believe they blow off designs just for sales...

I hope all that made sense. I sort of just spit that out.

It makes perfect sense. I'd agree that for a wheel like the Grid, Rota is absolutely pulling from the design of the TE37 because that style is popular. I can't fault them for that, though.

Our 'competitor' (in quotes, because Rotas and Volks aren't really in the same market) makes product X. The factors that influence the sale of product X are style (design) and options (sizing). We can legally produce product Y, which looks very similar to product X, and offer even more choices. Assuming we can produce product Y at a lower, but acceptable quality for a lower price, why not?



Looking at it another way... Should Volk have a monopoly on the fat-6-spoke wheel market when their only options cost ~$500 a wheel?

If it was possible to buy brand-name Volk TE37s with a cast construction for the same price as Rotas, the Grid would be run out of the market by the competition and Rota would be pushed to produce more original designs.

[blasphemy101]

No. This discussion is about, and has always been about the fact that companies like XXR and Rota take the designs from companies like Work and Volk and reproduce the designs with design and quality standards that are inferior to that of the original companies.

I can't comment on whether Rota produces wheels of inferior quality compared to Work or Volk. Their constructions are different. So if strength == quality for you, then you're right. In many cases the designs of forged Volk wheels are referenced by cast Rota wheels. That said, I don't have any idea how the manufacturing standards of Volk and Rota compare.

Comparing this discussion on wheels to the reproduction of OEM gaskets by other companies is irrelevant because the gaskets used on certain engines MUST be exactly the same or they won't fit/work.

Then you're condoning the copying of the original manufacturer's design without their consent. BMW and their licensed OEMs should be denied profit from their original design, but Volk should not?

Wheels on the other hand DO NOT have to be the exact same design to function properly.

It could be argued that the main 'functions' of aftermarket wheels are their style and sizing. Sometimes this is better accomplished by replicas. As I stated above, I can't fault a company like Rota for filling in a void at the lower end of the spectrum that Volk refuses to participate in. While some of their designs irrefutably draw from Volks, the process of putting the wheel to production is likely very similar.

The basic mechanical function of all wheels is the same. By that argument, aftermarket wheels are pointless to begin with.

[spike68]

I agree with you to an extent, but how far does this logic reach? Who created the first basketweave-style wheel? BBS, Work, and a number of other manufacturers are ripping them off. Many of the designs that are replicated have reached a classic status where copies and references to their design are inevitable.

I would happily buy a wheel from its original designer vs. a replica if price wasn't an issue. Unfortunately it is. There is no reason Volk can't manufacture a cast version of the TE37 and price it similarly to Rota's Grid wheel. They choose not to because they have decided they will be more profitable in the niche they have carved in the high-end wheel market.

I play guitar, so I can draw an analogy to guitar maker Gibson. They make a high-end, iconic guitar called the Les Paul. The standard version sells for ~$3,000, and copies of it's design and reach below the $150 mark (sound familiar?).

The Les Paul shape has been copied HUNDREDS of times and applied to inferior products. In the 80s, a couple of Japanese companies produced copies that were said to be BETTER than the guitars produced by Gibson. Gibson sued those companies.

Companies have continued to copy the Les Paul design (though generally with lower-quality examples), and Gibson has left them alone. They know those who want a GIBSON Les Paul will save and shell out the money. They would exhaust themselves and gain tons of negative PR for suing other established manufacturers for producing 'affordable' copies of their 'overpriced' guitars.

This a good comparison. I like the way you explained. Thank you.

There are plenty of people out there who only want the look, which is why they want to take the shortcut to get there. Replica companies know thats what people are looking for. They dont replicate designs because they function well, but because they know people only want the look. Companies replicate the les paul design often because its been proven to be very functional design that creates great sound. Yeah they know theyll make sales because its iconc through gibson, but there is still a function standpoint behind it. Replica wheel companies know that the only reason why high end companies are functional is because of the build quality and engineering they put behind it, which is the aspect that they arent replicating. I think that concludes they only want the look. That leads me to believe they blow off designs just for sales.

I will admit I havent thought about it the way you explained it. But if guitar designs are factually replicated for the sounds, then thats different. A design of a wheels does play a part in its structural properties, but its not always what makes that wheel high quality. Its always how its made, which like it said, is not the part companies are replicating.

I hope all that made sense. I sort of just spit that out.

[lambo]

That's not irrelevant at all...I'd say using a non-OEM licensed part like a swaybar strays from this discussion by inches, not degrees. The conversation is about replicas/copies of a design vs. the original design, not necessarily quality.

Exactly.

No. This discussion is about, and has always been about the fact that companies like XXR and Rota take the designs from companies like Work and Volk and reproduce the designs with design and quality standards that are inferior to that of the original companies.

Comparing this discussion on wheels to the reproduction of OEM gaskets by other companies is irrelevant because the gaskets used on certain engines MUST be exactly the same or they won't fit/work. Wheels on the other hand DO NOT have to be the exact same design to function properly.

[agent]

That's irrelevant. Quality parts are not exclusive to OEM.

That's not irrelevant at all...

The conversation is about replicas/copies of a design vs. the original design, not necessarily quality.

Exactly.

[blasphemy101]

This whole argument is bullshit.

Guys aren't into real stuff? That's cool. I'll keep enjoying authentic wheels.

Meh, no one's said anything about my mother, so it's not an argument, yet...

[dannyyisntt]

This whole argument is bullshit.

Guys aren't into real stuff? That's cool. I'll keep enjoying authentic wheels.

[blasphemy101]

That's irrelevant. Quality parts are not exclusive to OEM.

That's not irrelevant at all...I'd say using a non-OEM licensed part like a swaybar strays from this discussion by inches, not degrees. The conversation is about replicas/copies of a design vs. the original design, not necessarily quality.

[blasphemy101]

If you created something so great and so iconic someone decided to rip it off and sell it for cheap? Its pretty much disrespectful. People should at least be aware of that sense.

I agree with you to an extent, but how far does this logic reach? Who created the first basketweave-style wheel? BBS, Work, and a number of other manufacturers are ripping them off. Many of the designs that are replicated have reached a classic status where copies and references to their design are inevitable.

I would happily buy a wheel from its original designer vs. a replica if price wasn't an issue. Unfortunately it is. There is no reason Volk can't manufacture a cast version of the TE37 and price it similarly to Rota's Grid wheel. They choose not to because they have decided they will be more profitable in the niche they have carved in the high-end wheel market.

I play guitar, so I can draw an analogy to guitar maker Gibson. They make a high-end, iconic guitar called the Les Paul. The standard version sells for ~$3,000, and copies of it's design and reach below the $150 mark (sound familiar?).

The Les Paul shape has been copied HUNDREDS of times and applied to inferior products. In the 80s, a couple of Japanese companies produced copies that were said to be BETTER than the guitars produced by Gibson. Gibson sued those companies.

Companies have continued to copy the Les Paul design (though generally with lower-quality examples), and Gibson has left them alone. They know those who want a GIBSON Les Paul will save and shell out the money. They would exhaust themselves and gain tons of negative PR for suing other established manufacturers for producing 'affordable' copies of their 'overpriced' guitars.

[lambo]

So, is every part on your car Genuine BMW?

That's irrelevant. Quality parts are not exclusive to OEM.

[spike68]

Besides various aftermarket parts, yes.