pro3 race incident at Mission Raceway Park, BC

[bmnut2002]

Personally, I think any race series with E30's involved kicks ass. If I lived in another part of the country, I would probably race SpecE30. The costs are higher to run Pro3, no question, but it still comes down to driver in either series. We've had around four occasions in the past two years, where first and second have qualified within thousandths of a second of one another and third has been less than a tenth behind that. I imagine the same thing is happening in the SpecE30 ranks.

At the 25hrs of Thunderhiill this year I was really thinking how much fun it would be to have the Pro3 car there. Maybe not an ultra competitve car, but it sure would be a blast for an around the clock race. Just don't over rev and brake rocker arms!

[kishg]

This has turned out to be a very typical r3v thread. Some one post a very good thread and then you have some idiot post his personal comments that he knows better than everyone else. Then the rest of the group bashes one or the other. I simply inquired about Pro3 starting a Nor Cal chapter. So yeah Wh33lhop you need to learn about perspective. Tho I maybe a Spec e30 rookie does not mean I am a track rookie. Maybe I prefer Spec e30 to have a similar format like Honda Challenge (H1, H2, H3 and H4). They are still Spec classes.

quit digging your hole. ranger wasn't trying to push his opinion on you. he was merely pointing out one perspective. you can try and learn something from it or ignore it.

[Wh33lhop]

I simply inquired about Pro3 starting a Nor Cal chapter.

No, someone offered their advice and you blew the fuck up at them. So you don't want to heed their advice? Great. Say that instead of "get a fucking life." It's an overreaction.

So yeah Wh33lhop you need to learn about perspective.

How old are you?

Tho I maybe a Spec e30 rookie does not mean I am a track rookie.

[XvillainousX]

Are you serious? He offered up some information to try and put things in perspective. You sound like you just broke out of a mental hospital.

This has turned out to be a very typical r3v thread. Some one post a very good thread and then you have some idiot post his personal comments that he knows better than everyone else. Then the rest of the group bashes one or the other. I simply inquired about Pro3 starting a Nor Cal chapter. So yeah Wh33lhop you need to learn about perspective. Tho I maybe a Spec e30 rookie does not mean I am a track rookie. Maybe I prefer Spec e30 to have a similar format like Honda Challenge (H1, H2, H3 and H4). They are still Spec classes.

[Wh33lhop]

So yeah Pro3 take that. You guys freakin suck and you guys are stupid {Sarcasim}

Why can't I inquire about Pro3? I'm not knocking Nasa Spec e30 or have I. So, why can't I be entitled to my opinion? So if some other guy lives on the Oregon/California border wants to decide between Spec E30 or Pro3 are you going to come back with the same bullshit you just threw at me and knock down the Pro3? Get a fucking life. Let other people inquire about other E30 racing series other than Spec E30.

Are you serious? He offered up some information to try and put things in perspective. You sound like you just broke out of a mental hospital.

[RangerGress]

To be clear, we're not all *that* modded. The idea when Pro3 was set up was to run essentially under SCCA ITS rules, but E30's only. So we are very limited on what we can do to the motor. Yes, we can port the head to the dimension of the gasket, but pretty much everything else must be stock. Exhaust is free so we can run headers. We certainly have a lot of latitude in the suspension department, but you must maintain the factory pick up points, and no remote-resevoir shocks.

Where the big money in our series is coming from is guys using fresh tires every weekend, having multiple fresh motors for one season to make sure they've got that last 2 HP, and carrying 3 different diffs (3:73, 4:10, 4:27) so that they've got the best gearing for the circuit we're at on a given weekend. I could argue you could most of that in any class.

Understood. I was just trying to use a sense of humor to help Villianous understand what makes a class fun....... Lots of similar cars and nice helpful guys. I think it went pretty well, don't you? <g>

[Tom Olsson]

To be clear, we're not all *that* modded. The idea when Pro3 was set up was to run essentially under SCCA ITS rules, but E30's only. So we are very limited on what we can do to the motor. Yes, we can port the head to the dimension of the gasket, but pretty much everything else must be stock. Exhaust is free so we can run headers. We certainly have a lot of latitude in the suspension department, but you must maintain the factory pick up points, and no remote-resevoir shocks.

Where the big money in our series is coming from is guys using fresh tires every weekend, having multiple fresh motors for one season to make sure they've got that last 2 HP, and carrying 3 different diffs (3:73, 4:10, 4:27) so that they've got the best gearing for the circuit we're at on a given weekend. I could argue you could most of that in any class.

[kishg]

ranger, i agree with your spec, KISS philosophy but to be fair there are many many people running mod classes that haven't had nearly the issues you've had this year so i don't think it's a fair analogy.

[RangerGress]

So yeah Pro3 take that. You guys freakin suck and you guys are stupid {Sarcasim}

Why can't I inquire about Pro3? I'm not knocking Nasa Spec e30 or have I. So, why can't I be entitled to my opinion? So if some other guy lives on the Oregon/California border wants to decide between Spec E30 or Pro3 are you going to come back with the same bullshit you just threw at me and knock down the Pro3? Get a fucking life. Let other people inquire about other E30 racing series other than Spec E30.

Dude, It's not my intent to beat on you are criticize you in any way, so pls don't take offense. When I was doing DE's I didn't have the first clue as to the different results from seemingly innocuous differences in the rules. It would have been very helpful for someone to tell me, what I attempted to tell you. I was just trying to help.

Knocking Pro3? My perception of them has always been that they are a terrific group of guys having great fun.

All classes are more complicated then Spec classes. That doesn't make them bad and Spec good. It does make a Spec class a little more suited to a newby tho.

My post was supposed to be mildly amusing. Sorry if I offended you.

That "Get a Fucking life" line was charming tho.

[XvillainousX]

After you've been racing SpecE30 a couple yrs, fought thru a number of devilish problems with blood, sweat, and income, let's revisit this. Obviously SpecE30 is a pretty simple car, but in '09 I...

Had a shop destroy my engine.
Replaced my engine with a junkyard motor that turned out to be a turd.
Bought a new $2k head. That turned out to be a turd.
Had the $2k head redone and had the motor entirely rebuilt at 020 over.
$2k head was destroyed by a shop that failed to install a part. They also failed to own up to it.
Installed another new head.
020 over engine dynoed only barely average.
Found that the first shop swiped my LSD diff so installed another.
Stuck a valve in the "another new head" when coolant loss caused an overheat.

And am now having that head rebuilt. Guy with the head says I've got an oil control problem so I might be installing new rings too.

Sure, that's a bad luck year, but it's a bad luck year with a simple race car. How badly do you want a more complex car? Adding complexity to your car, or even something as seemingly innocuous as simply giving you choices, is the equivalent of paying someone to beat you with a stick.

"I wonder if he beat me because of those custom headers". You then find someone to make you custom headers but the dyno reports that they added nothing. Header guy says it must be something else because his headers are terrific. You change a bunch of other stuff that didn't need to be changed, each of which needs to be dyno tested. Ultimately you bag the headers and move on to something else. Total cost of debacle $1500.

"Cool, the rules now allow solid engine mounts". Later: "Is that a crack in my front subframe"?
"Cool, the rules now allow stiffer suspension". Later: "Hey, I think my shock just when right thru my tower".
"Cool, the rules now allow big brakes". Later: "How could RangerGress have possibly out braked my $4k brakes with his OEM crap"?

Gofast parts that everyone has are not cool. They are just another required part to purchase. In contrast we've talked about getting slower tires because they are cheaper.

I had a lot of fun with this post. Keep coming back, I'm likely to think up more.

So yeah Pro3 take that. You guys freakin suck and you guys are stupid {Sarcasim}

Why can't I inquire about Pro3? I'm not knocking Nasa Spec e30 or have I. So, why can't I be entitled to my opinion? So if some other guy lives on the Oregon/California border wants to decide between Spec E30 or Pro3 are you going to come back with the same bullshit you just threw at me and knock down the Pro3? Get a fucking life. Let other people inquire about other E30 racing series other than Spec E30.

[RangerGress]

Dont get me wrong, I'm not knocking Spec E30 or the reason for a SPEC race. Pro3 just has more appeal to me. I just want their rules but California weather!

After you've been racing SpecE30 a couple yrs, fought thru a number of devilish problems with blood, sweat, and income, let's revisit this. Obviously SpecE30 is a pretty simple car, but in '09 I...

Had a shop destroy my engine.
Replaced my engine with a junkyard motor that turned out to be a turd.
Bought a new $2k head. That turned out to be a turd.
Had the $2k head redone and had the motor entirely rebuilt at 020 over.
$2k head was destroyed by a shop that failed to install a part. They also failed to own up to it.
Installed another new head.
020 over engine dynoed only barely average.
Found that the first shop swiped my LSD diff so installed another.
Stuck a valve in the "another new head" when coolant loss caused an overheat.

And am now having that head rebuilt. Guy with the head says I've got an oil control problem so I might be installing new rings too.

Sure, that's a bad luck year, but it's a bad luck year with a simple race car. How badly do you want a more complex car? Adding complexity to your car, or even something as seemingly innocuous as simply giving you choices, is the equivalent of paying someone to beat you with a stick.

"I wonder if he beat me because of those custom headers". You then find someone to make you custom headers but the dyno reports that they added nothing. Header guy says it must be something else because his headers are terrific. You change a bunch of other stuff that didn't need to be changed, each of which needs to be dyno tested. Ultimately you bag the headers and move on to something else. Total cost of debacle $1500.

"Cool, the rules now allow solid engine mounts". Later: "Is that a crack in my front subframe"?
"Cool, the rules now allow stiffer suspension". Later: "Hey, I think my shock just when right thru my tower".
"Cool, the rules now allow big brakes". Later: "How could RangerGress have possibly out braked my $4k brakes with his OEM crap"?

Gofast parts that everyone has are not cool. They are just another required part to purchase. In contrast we've talked about getting slower tires because they are cheaper.

I had a lot of fun with this post. Keep coming back, I'm likely to think up more.

[XvillainousX]

Go talk to your SpecE30 buddies out there about this. I think that you'll find that the strict rules in SpecE30 saves lots of money, reduces problems, and keeps the cars more competitive.

Dont get me wrong, I'm not knocking Spec E30 or the reason for a SPEC race. Pro3 just has more appeal to me. I just want their rules but California weather!

You might want to check on that SpecE30 hp limitation of 205.

Sorry I was referring to tire limit of a 205...

Our horse power limit here is 160hp.

Spec E30 is a great class. You'll be happy running that class, and as stated, you'll have lots of local resources to help you with your car's build, and future maintenance.

#35 PRO3

I didn't think you guys would but I thought I'd ask to see what reasponse I'd get.

Great video Kev, makes me want to take out the car to the tracks right now.

[Tom Olsson]

In SpecE30 when the guy next to you kicks your ass, it's because you suck. I don't want to lose because I'm outspent, I want to lose because I suck.

That is AWESOME! Oh man, that made my day. Yeah, we've had a more than a couple discussions up here about the fact that it's beginning to get really expensive to be competitive in the Pro3 field.

Oh yeah, and back on topic for the thread - Kevin's got to be one of the nicest guys we've got in our field. He races hard, has always been a clean driver that gives people room. It's going to take a lot to have him blow his top, which makes the clip funny as hell.

[Lance Racing]

You guys should start a Nor Cal chapter..

No chance of that. We run a 12 race season with sanctioning body ICSCC. ICSCC santions races in the Pacific Northwest, so that's our territory.

Spec E30 is a great class. You'll be happy running that class, and as stated, you'll have lots of local resources to help you with your car's build, and future maintenance.

cheers,

Lance Richert
#35 PRO3

[RangerGress]

I'm currently building a NASA spec e30 car so we are limited on mods. So hearing that you guys can port match, lighten and stuff makes me jeolous. What are your horse power numbers? As you know, we're limited to 205 and with a higher weight of 2750. So Pro3 is really appealing. You guys should start a Nor Cal chapter..

Nooooooooooooooo

Go talk to your SpecE30 buddies out there about this. I think that you'll find that the strict rules in SpecE30 saves lots of money, reduces problems, and keeps the cars more competitive.

When the cars are the same, everyone has the same problems. Any problem you have, 10 guys in your region have had it. But when folks have unique set ups, they have unique problems.

In SpecE30 when the guy next to you kicks your ass, it's because you suck. I don't want to lose because I'm outspent, I want to lose because I suck.

And, ah, I generally get my wish, lol.

Every time I hear about the mods allowed in Pro3 or the E30's racing down under I think to myself "man that would be a bummer".

Fast isn't the secret to fun. The secret to fun is equal cars. Lots of them. Hot trophy chicks are pretty ok too.

You might want to check on that SpecE30 hp limitation of 205.