Footage from Watkins Glen September 25-26th GVC Chapter

[structured]

Im pretty sure that i saw some of you guys driving back to NY/NJ on Sunday. It was pretty cool seeing a fully equipped e30 riding on a flatbed in NJ traffic.

Wish that I knew about this. I was in Ithaca all weekend.

hahahahahah I dont think my company truck would fair too well on that. I am out here on dig ups for Enterprise/Texas Eastern on that old propane pipeline that blew out 3-4 weeks ago.

Your company truck may not be welcome at the track but I know several seasonal roads where you'd be right at home. I also know some hillbillies that would be happy to show you around. :D

[ZM Blue Devil]

I meant the camera view, get your mind out of gutter.

[dude8383]

TMI dude... this is the track section, not OT :)

:rofl:

Im pretty sure that i saw some of you guys driving back to NY/NJ on Sunday. It was pretty cool seeing a fully equipped e30 riding on a flatbed in NJ traffic.

Wish that I knew about this. I was in Ithaca all weekend.



Your company truck may not be welcome at the track but I know several seasonal roads where you'd be right at home. I also know some hillbillies that would be happy to show you around. :D

You probably saw Kish or maybe someone else coming from the track...I was riding back with a Corrado and a red GTi.

I might be doing Pocono!

[7pilot]

It's always good to see someone get hooked on the "track pipe".


m

[SkinnyVT]

Yup, plenty of guys with gopro's using the suction mount were out there. They're very sturdy so I don't see why anyone would be worried. The drift guys mount them on the outside and those guys fling the cars around...

As the guy that routinely pulls them off cars for Patroon BMWCCA in pit lane I will say that if they are on the interior of the car with a tether that keeps it out of reach of the occupants (driver/instructor) I am ok with it. Exterior, if you can prove to me that it is tethered properly I might let it run (I've never seen one tethered adequately) otherwise it is coming off. There is too much risk of it coming off, honestly I don't care if it effects your car but I am concerned about it hitting somebody else's car. Yes there are inherent risks we all take on the track but we do try to minimize them and this is one easy way.

I've run them at autox's and never had an issue with one coming off but they do lose suction over time. So while it may not come off in the first session it may come off in the 3rd or 4th if it is not re-stuck every session.

So if you plan on doing a Patroon BMWCCA event you should have a method of tethering your camera or else it will be getting some sweet footage sitting on the pit wall until you come retrieve it after your session. As always, hard mounts are always preferred.

[dude8383]

It's always good to see someone get hooked on the "track pipe".


m

Haha, I've been hooked since my first event man...its f'in amazing!

As the guy that routinely pulls them off cars for Patroon BMWCCA in pit lane I will say that if they are on the interior of the car with a tether that keeps it out of reach of the occupants (driver/instructor) I am ok with it. Exterior, if you can prove to me that it is tethered properly I might let it run (I've never seen one tethered adequately) otherwise it is coming off. There is too much risk of it coming off, honestly I don't care if it effects your car but I am concerned about it hitting somebody else's car. Yes there are inherent risks we all take on the track but we do try to minimize them and this is one easy way.

I've run them at autox's and never had an issue with one coming off but they do lose suction over time. So while it may not come off in the first session it may come off in the 3rd or 4th if it is not re-stuck every session.

So if you plan on doing a Patroon BMWCCA event you should have a method of tethering your camera or else it will be getting some sweet footage sitting on the pit wall until you come retrieve it after your session. As always, hard mounts are always preferred.

I hear ya...I would be repositioning it from each session. I'd basically alternate each time.

I prefer the headrest mount simply because it's not going ANYWHERE!

[calz4m]

BTW Your instructor talks too much and shouldn't use his hands. You are watching the track, way ahead damn it... ;-)[/QUOTE]

Thanks, Lee. I'll be sure to remember your critique the next time I instruct...

[Ferdinand]

I gotta say, you drive really really well!

You are very calm, blending your steering inputs smoothly, wind in smoothly, hold calmly, then wind out smoothly. Thumbs hooked calmly right down at the 9 and 3 o'clock position. Not shuffling your hand position around on the wheel at all. Excellent. I love to see that.

It's often difficult to tell from an onboard video, but from watching your passengers you can see that they're not being tossed around at all either. That means you must be just as smooth on your transitions from braking to throttle as well. No jumping suddenly on the brakes or punching the throttle.

Even though the sound on GoPros suck, because they pick up too much wind noise, you can still hear your tires singing when you lean on them in the curves. That's cool too. They're not chirping or screeching on and off, the way they would be if you were sawing back and forth on the steering. Just a nice steady howl as you gradually load them up, find a comfortable spot then let them hang there, then ease off smoothly as you wind out on the steering leaving the corner. Really nice.

It's obvious from watching this that you have a very good feel for what your car is doing. It's confidence inspiring just watching this. I get the feeling that if you ever did over-cook it (unlikely with your smooth approach to driving) and the rear end started to step out on you, you'd probably just as calmly wind in precisely the required amount of counter-steer to correct it. Well done.

For comparison and contrast, just another clip I stumbled on, watch this guy in a Porsche Cayman. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kwTgmCtHvw

Right off the bat, I don't like how he's holding the steering wheel. Why 10 and 2 o'clock with that steering wheel? Why not with his thumbs, like yours, hooked comfortably at 9 and 3 o'clock?

You can tell that he's not entirely happy with his grip either, because he's constantly twitching his thumbs and slightly repositioning his grip. That already makes me nervous just watching that.

Then, he yanks the steering suddenly into his turns. No smooth transitions blending into the corner, just suddenly crank the wheel into the turn.

Because he's so choppy turning into the corner, it upsets the car and then he has to make lots of little corrections (sawing constantly) to get the car settled. You can hear the tires chirping and complaining as he's busy hunting for the correct amount of steering.

Same on exiting corners. He's far too abrupt in straightening the wheel.

In the middle of all that uncertainty, he's busy shuffling his hand positioning on the wheel. Blech and Yeuck.

Granted, he's really flying. It is a Porsche Cayman after all. But he's clearly nowhere near to driving that thing to its full potential, and I sure wouldn't want to be riding with him when he eventually tries. Definitely NOT confidence inspiring, no way!

That Porsche guy should be taking lessons from you.

[Ferdinand]

Years ago I saved this Road&Track article and ever since have strived to drive like this. After watching your videos I had to dig this article up again to post it here for you.

Congratulations, because you seem to have figured it out straight away. Keep it up, you've got talent.

[dude8383]

I gotta say, you drive really really well!

You are very calm, blending your steering inputs smoothly, wind in smoothly, hold calmly, then wind out smoothly. Thumbs hooked calmly right down at the 9 and 3 o'clock position. Not shuffling your hand position around on the wheel at all. Excellent. I love to see that.

It's often difficult to tell from an onboard video, but from watching your passengers you can see that they're not being tossed around at all either. That means you must be just as smooth on your transitions from braking to throttle as well. No jumping suddenly on the brakes or punching the throttle.

Even though the sound on GoPros suck, because they pick up too much wind noise, you can still hear your tires singing when you lean on them in the curves. That's cool too. They're not chirping or screeching on and off, the way they would be if you were sawing back and forth on the steering. Just a nice steady howl as you gradually load them up, find a comfortable spot then let them hang there, then ease off smoothly as you wind out on the steering leaving the corner. Really nice.

It's obvious from watching this that you have a very good feel for what your car is doing. It's confidence inspiring just watching this. I get the feeling that if you ever did over-cook it (unlikely with your smooth approach to driving) and the rear end started to step out on you, you'd probably just as calmly wind in precisely the required amount of counter-steer to correct it. Well done.

For comparison and contrast, just another clip I stumbled on, watch this guy in a Porsche Cayman. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kwTgmCtHvw

Right off the bat, I don't like how he's holding the steering wheel. Why 10 and 2 o'clock with that steering wheel? Why not with his thumbs, like yours, hooked comfortably at 9 and 3 o'clock?

You can tell that he's not entirely happy with his grip either, because he's constantly twitching his thumbs and slightly repositioning his grip. That already makes me nervous just watching that.

Then, he yanks the steering suddenly into his turns. No smooth transitions blending into the corner, just suddenly crank the wheel into the turn.

Because he's so choppy turning into the corner, it upsets the car and then he has to make lots of little corrections (sawing constantly) to get the car settled. You can hear the tires chirping and complaining as he's busy hunting for the correct amount of steering.

Same on exiting corners. He's far too abrupt in straightening the wheel.

In the middle of all that uncertainty, he's busy shuffling his hand positioning on the wheel. Blech and Yeuck.

Granted, he's really flying. It is a Porsche Cayman after all. But he's clearly nowhere near to driving that thing to its full potential, and I sure wouldn't want to be riding with him when he eventually tries. Definitely NOT confidence inspiring, no way!

That Porsche guy should be taking lessons from you.

I am TRULY blown away by your analysis and I'm so incredibly flattered it hurts! Wow. Thank you. All those days of playing video games are starting to pay off HAHA!

In all seriousness I really tried to focus on being as smooth as possible and obviously I stuck to it!

Jeff came away with the same sentiments at the end of the two day event and again...extremely flattered. I was truly having a great time out there!

Years ago I saved this Road&Track article and ever since have strived to drive like this. After watching your videos I had to dig this article up again to post it here for you.

Congratulations, because you seem to have figured it out straight away. Keep it up, you've got talent.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3..._the_Coupe.gif

LOL I guess I can't say it enough...but thank you :) I will DEFINITELY keep it up. When was that Road & Track published?

Such an awesome article!! The funny thing is that while the instructor critiques my driving, I'm also consciously critiquing myself with the same points. There were several instances where I'd point out my mistakes and Jeff would completely agree. The next time around I wouldn't make the same mistake...

I'm so stoked about the event coming up the following weekend @ Pocono!

[Ferdinand]

I'm so incredibly flattered it hurts!

Now please don't go getting all swollen-headed and over-confident, then go crashing your car on your very next outing!!!

When was that Road & Track published?

Eons ago. Late 70s, early 80s?

It made such a big impression on me though, I saved a copy in my files to take out and study whenever I need a reminder.

Interestingly, to this day Sir Jackie Stewart still preaches the exact same principles. See this Top Gear episode: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5rpFXdWtK4

I particularly like his example where he shoves Capt Slow causing him to stumble backwards, versus pushing gradually harder on his shoulder allowing him to lean in to resist the push.

Any abrupt change, be it stamping on the brakes, punching the throttle, or wiggling the steering wheel, will cause the car to move on its suspension thereby compromising grip. It's the transitions that matter the most. The smoother you can blend all those together, the happier the car will be, and consequently the faster you will be.

One of your instructors mentioned how you could be braking harder and deeper into the corners. It's true, but don't worry about that stuff yet. It's not necessary. That'll just eat up brake pads, and boil the brake fluid out of your calipers. For now concentrate on always making every transition as smooth as possible so the car flows OUT of the corners with as much speed as possible. Slow in, fast out.

AFTER you've totally mastered that, and ONLY after, should you work on eaking out the last few milliseconds of lap time by braking deeper. Any monkey can stand on the throttle or brakes and aim a car in a straight line. All the true artwork is in how effortlessly you get the car to sing through corners with "minimum conflict".

Jackie Stewart made another driving instructing movie long ago, that I'd like to find again. In it he describes the "friction circle" and how the tires can only take so much loading, either in side loading in corners, or tractive loads in acceleration or braking. He stressed how important it was to blend those loads smoothly together when transitioning from one mode to the other. I.e. you don't just brake hard, then stop braking, then suddenly turn the steering wheel to full hard cornering, etc. It all has to blend together smoothly.

To demonstrate that he had a huge hemispherical bowl mounted on the hood of a car with a tennis ball in it. Then the test was to bring the tennis ball just up to the lip of the bowl and HOLD it there under braking, or under cornering, or acceleration. Any abrupt changes would see the ball flip up out of the bowl or see-saw up and down in the bowl. That was a brilliant demonstration.

But the really, really, cool thing was to make the tennis ball ride right up to the front lip of the bowl and stay there under braking, then walk it around the lip of the bowl to one side or the other as you gradually ease in more and more steering angle while simultaneously easing out of the brakes, etc.

[KennyT]

To demonstrate that he had a huge hemispherical bowl mounted on the hood of a car with a tennis ball in it. Then the test was to bring the tennis ball just up to the lip of the bowl and HOLD it there under braking, or under cornering, or acceleration. Any abrupt changes would see the ball flip up out of the bowl or see-saw up and down in the bowl. That was a brilliant demonstration.

That is brilliant. I need to try this.

[JRKOUPE]

skillz

Dude...


you do look like you have some skillz.......the addiction is the greatest...welcome to the crack den.

Ferdie.......you are very well spoken.......and seem like you know your sheeet......well said.

Just got back from SCDA at LRP yesterday........pure sunshine......the skies opened up for one day..wow.....

the s50 really rocks...and it is no where near as forgiving as an m20.......its like, ok fella you asked for 70 more hp?...well bring it on and hold on tight. Its been 3 events since the swap....its becoming more familiar. I need to get a vid posted.

[Ferdinand]

I've seen guys do a similar sort of thing by hanging an object on a string from their rearview mirror. That would give some indication of the g-forces, which you can then see and study on your in-car video.

But I'd recommend using something a little less distracting than this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0p7DfUWYMw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YM-GId8kFm8

[dude8383]

Ferdinand, don't get me wrong, I'm not going to go out on the track thinking I'm the man! It's always a learning experience for me so I can assure you that I won't be some cocky douche out there haha!

I don't remember who said it but the saying was "the slowest way around the track, is the fastest way around the track."

The saying "slow in, fast out" is something that I'm constantly reminding myself while out on the track :)

See if you can track down those instructional vid's with Jackie!! I'd love to watch em.

Dude...


you do look like you have some skillz.......the addiction is the greatest...welcome to the crack den.

Ferdie.......you are very well spoken.......and seem like you know your sheeet......well said.

Just got back from SCDA at LRP yesterday........pure sunshine......the skies opened up for one day..wow.....

the s50 really rocks...and it is no where near as forgiving as an m20.......its like, ok fella you asked for 70 more hp?...well bring it on and hold on tight. Its been 3 events since the swap....its becoming more familiar. I need to get a vid posted.

Agreed. Lets see the video!! I really want to see LRP, its only 2hrs away!

I've seen guys do a similar sort of thing by hanging an object on a string from their rearview mirror. That would give some indication of the g-forces, which you can then see and study on your in-car video.

But I'd recommend using something a little less distracting than this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0p7DfUWYMw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YM-GId8kFm8

A few years back I went to a mazda event and they had a similar setup. The place a few ping pong balls into a clear bowl that was mounted on the hood. The objective was to go around a small auto-x type layout without losing any of the balls. That was a fun and difficult exercise but I managed to keep most of them in there!!