Alignment recommendations?

[Fusion]

I'll be seeing an alignment guy probably tomorrow after all the refurb I've done up front and would like to know if there's any track specific info I might need. He seemed pretty generous over the phone and I told him this isn't a DD so I might not want settings his computer might spew out.
I've set the front camber to 2/3, 1 being center setting and 3 most negative. The front wheels now have similar camber to the rear wheels, but I've only done a short test drive. Also, the camber plate sort of points to the rear of the car, not straight across to the other shock tower, so I think it might have added some slight caster.

What would you recommend for high speed circuit especially toe, which is totally off now (I eyeballed it).

[bmwguy325is]

HMMMM
Well this set up might not help.
However this is what I run
I had a shop align my front end with stock toe and 2deg camber. (that was the outer most or fender side it would go) Then I added a full degree of camber so neg 3 and all the caster one day at the track. So the toe is what ever you get from that. It sounds dumb but the car feels pretty good.
In the rear I run a lil over .5 neg camber and zero the toe. I have the eccentric bushings though.

[jlevie]

For track use set the toe to zero and as much caster as possible. How much camber to use depends on the tires being used. R-Comps will probably want all the camber you camber you can get, which when not using coil overs will around 3.5deg. For street tires 2-2.5deg would be a good place to start.

[Fusion]

Yea, I'm going to start of with the street tires again and "work my way up" to rcomps and different settings later, so I know what it feels like in different situations.
Thanks guys!

[Jaxx_]

alignment values won't work for every car and for everyone. I prefer no toe or a little toe out in the front, I think last time they dialed in .5 deg. I don't have anything else adjustable so I only have factory adjustments. I do have H&R race so that ads a bit of camber.

Nothing is going to replace testing and tuning according to your preference.

[Wh33lhop]

For track use set the toe to zero and as much caster as possible. How much camber to use depends on the tires being used. R-Comps will probably want all the camber you camber you can get, which when not using coil overs will around 3.5deg. For street tires 2-2.5deg would be a good place to start.

What he said.

Caster is awesome but after about 11 degrees you will start to get a weight jacking effect at sharp steering angles which is no fun. Keep in mind the rear suspension gains camber more quickly than the front, so you will want to run more camber in the front to compensate.

[Jaxx_]

What he said.

Caster is awesome but after about 11 degrees you will start to get a weight jacking effect at sharp steering angles which is no fun. Keep in mind the rear suspension gains camber more quickly than the front, so you will want to run more camber in the front to compensate.

don't forget that when the control arm gets past 0 degrees you start losing camber.

[Wh33lhop]

don't forget that when the control arm gets past 0 degrees you start losing camber.

Actually it is when the control arm to strut angle is 90 degrees, but yes. This is assuming he is at a reasonable ride height and not stretched and poked/hellaflush/stanced/whatever.

[Fusion]

Turned out to be about 0.1° toe, camber is 2.7°, caster 8°. I forget the rear.
Feels great now, only difference is that the steering isn't as willing to return to the center as before. Not that I mind it much, but is that a side effect of the neg. camber?

And I still have the problem of the steering boots unable to exchange air, so they blow up or thin out, depending on turn. Any ideas?

Edit: Drove home through some bends and it seems things are "loosening up" and the wheel is returing better.
Track day thursday, here I come!

[Jaxx_]

Actually it is when the control arm to strut angle is 90 degrees, but yes. This is assuming he is at a reasonable ride height and not stretched and poked/hellaflush/stanced/whatever.

yes, that's what i should have said. Thanks for clarifying. :)

Turned out to be about 0.1° toe, camber is 2.7°, caster 8°. I forget the rear.
Feels great now, only difference is that the steering isn't as willing to return to the center as before. Not that I mind it much, but is that a side effect of the neg. camber?

the negative camber should really most effect tramlining when talking about drivability. More caster means it will return to center easier. I think what would be doing what you describe is the toe. When it's toe neutral or toe out you usually have to drive the car 100 percent of the time. Like, it should wander a little when driving straight.

[Fusion]

Had a great track day today. Unfortunately the damn phone somehow screwed up and I only have the first 28s were recorded. FML

I want to ask you guys about understeer. The car feels great now with the Konis and IE sway, poly cabs, new joints and the above alignment. BUT I guess I'm a bit faster than with the old setup and encountering understeer, especially in one left-hand, slightly downhill turn.
What I noticed is the street Conti tires are screaming through all turns, and through the entire length of the turns, which wasn't the case on the old setup. Even with the screaming, I was very confident, and there were only two moments when I wasn't 100% in control.
What I noticed was that I can slightly cure the understeer with a tap on the brakes.
So now I'm weighing options:
- start looking for rcomps, but there's a TD next week, so not an option right now
- I ran Konis in the softest setting, I can put them on the hardest
- I can set the camber to most negative
- I can harden the sway setting
- play around with tire pressure

I think I just need to find the setup that feels best, and move on to rcomps when I'm confident with this setup on streets. The rear shocks aren't in the best shape, I'll be changing those to the same Konis soon, maybe the soft rear is causing this? I pressed the sidewall of the 205/50s and it's pretty soft, they are pretty old with good tread, but I don't like that softness.

Any advice?

[jlevie]

Your Koni shocks are only adjustable for rebound damping, which is how fast the shock extends after being compressed. You need enough damping to prevent oscillation of the springs, but more damping isn't going to help and will probably make the car squirrelly on rough surfaces.

Stiffening the rear sway or adding thickness to the rear spring pads will help cure the understeer, as will more front camber. Replacing the worn out rear shock will also help.

[Fusion]

Thanks! Koni rears are on the way.
In other words, I want to slightly lose the rear camber, right? (which I think is caused by the weak shocks). I checked the alignment data sheet and the rears are also about 2.7° camber, which makes it the same at all wheels right now.

[bmwguy325is]

Good thing with E30s is great rear shocks with lots of travel.
One other thing is corner balance the car. I know most guys see the huge battery in the trunk as weight. But it will help you to get the cross weights better. A good corner balance will keep the contact patches more even and also help keep the car more neutral so it wont under stear one way and so on.

[Fusion]

Already have the battery in the trunk.
I also have a fiberglass front hood and will be putting FG fenders on soon. Not because of the weight, but the metal ones are messed up and FG wasn't much more expensive.