SCCA STX E30 Build/Introduction

[race2win]

Wow, great thread. I've just started autoXing my E30 M3 with NorCal UFO. My current setup really sucks. Bilstein sports up front with Koni sports in the rear. The springs are Racing Dynamics, but I don't have a clue as to what the spring rate is. That said, the car does not rotate at all. The back end is very well planted and eventually overwhelms the front end about mid corner. It turns in fine, but if I get on the power early it becomes less inclined to turn. I've been autoXing since '06 with a VERY tail happy Datsun roadster (190+ hp, less than 2000 lbs, and locking diff with a live axle and leaf springs and very little weight in the back.) and going to the M3 is proving to be challenging. I'm guessing the spring rate is a little soft, but it feels like I need more front camber (its eating the outsides of the front tires, Hankook RS3s, and leaving the insides untouched) and perhaps more caster. What do these things like in terms of camber, caster, and toe? I have a set of custom valved Koni sports, treehouse racing control arm bushings and ground control camber plates on order. I'm not sure where I should set it up however. I'm thinking -2 degrees camber, 0 toe, and as much caster as I can run (I can't feel the car at all. I'm thinking of dumping the power steering, its WAY overboosted for my liking.). I'll likely end up installing a set of H&R race springs to both raise the front end up some (improving roll center), and adding some spring rate to help make it rotate. I was thinking of adding a big rear sway bar, to get it to rotate, but that has its drawbacks as well. I'm totally fine stepping the back end out, and catching it, I've gotten really good at that with the Datsun.

I'd love to hear any thoughts. In the cars first outting, it was the fastest BMW there, and it was totally undeveloped. The class I run in is perhaps the most highly competitive class that runs out there. I'd like to do better than a somewhat distant 4th place against cars that are 20 years older than it.

Thanks,
Will

Welcome to the thread! It has been a while since I have done a UFO event, but I may this season just to get some testing in at Marina. I also hope to make most AAS events down there as well. I would also suggest running with BMWCCA, they put on nice events at Marina as well. Definitely come on out to SFR SCCA events though...we are going to have a great STX class this year!

What size RS3s do you have? Do you know what the spring rates are? Are the rear Koni shocks adjustable, & if so what setting are you running them at? What tire pressures are you running? What sway bars do you have currently? My car is pretty much the opposite in it's current set-up...I'm constantly chasing the back of the car, especially from mid-corner out. My car does have about -2* front camber though, due to offset bushings & a good alignment (thanks Edge Motorworks!), so that will definitely help if you can get more front camber.

The consensus I am getting is that the E30's like a lot more spring rate in the back of the car, I plan to run something like 650 front & 800 rear with no rear bar. I'm just not sure how that would apply to the E30 M3, those cars have a different balance to them, & less weight over the front axle. I'm not sure if you frequent bimmerforums or not, but Chris Conant is on there, he has arguably the most successful E30 M3 in SCCA autocrossing. I'm sure he will share some ideas about suspension set-up, he has been running that car a long time.

Hopefully I will see you out there one of these days, look me up if you see me, I would be glad to help in any way possible!

[race2win]

race2win,

Thanks for this thread. I'm a dedicated MINI JCW pilot starting my third year of autox. I stumbled across your thread looking for ideas. I had a "STX Prep" thread on Motoring Alliance last year for MINI drivers that several folks found useful. I started one a couple of weeks ago for 2012 referencing your thread. Here's mine:

http://www.motoringalliance.com/forums/autox/11732-scca-stx-2012-r56-class-prep-introduction.html#post113110

Though I'm not really planning on going to Nationals this year I like to think I will one day. Not a single MINI was entered in STX at the Nationals and the R56 is certainly not an ideal platform for STX. So I really like your effort to take the "underdog" E30 as far as you can go. Way cool! Much of your discussion and ideas are applicable to our little beasts so I thought I'd just let you know some of us are paying attention.

Good work.

Welcome, thanks so much for the kind words! A couple of minor corrections though... ;) As much as I would love to say I have won a National Championship, it's not so. I have won National Tours & Pro Solos, the traveling series that goes around the country all year, but believe it or not in my 20 year career I have never made the trip to the National Championships. I also wanted to point out that there was an E30 325i just like mine at Lincoln last year, it was driven by Doug Hitchcock, a member here (110stx).

I must say that I apologize...I left out the Mini S on my list of potential "cars-to-have" for STX. Definitely do NOT give up hope on the Mini's potential to succeed, that car has all the right ingredients to do VERY well! This is what makes STX so great...the vast array of different cars that have a chance at winning. The Mini is most likely going to be a course-dependant car like the E30, they are light & pretty narrow, & they turn very well.

Fat Cat Motorsports, the Miata Bilstien Guru, just finished building the suspension for a Mini JCW in STX that will be competing locally. So it appears my region may be one to watch this year as we will have many different top-prepped cars such as my E30, an E36 325is, RX8, Mazdaspeed3, Boss Mustang, & a couple WRX's ...& those are just the cars I know of! Our first event is Feb 19th at the Oakland Colesium, even though my suspension will most likely not be done yet, I cannot wait!

[BlackbirdM3]

Welcome to the thread! It has been a while since I have done a UFO event, but I may this season just to get some testing in at Marina. I also hope to make most AAS events down there as well. I would also suggest running with BMWCCA, they put on nice events at Marina as well. Definitely come on out to SFR SCCA events though...we are going to have a great STX class this year!

What size RS3s do you have? Do you know what the spring rates are? Are the rear Koni shocks adjustable, & if so what setting are you running them at? What tire pressures are you running? What sway bars do you have currently? My car is pretty much the opposite in it's current set-up...I'm constantly chasing the back of the car, especially from mid-corner out. My car does have about -2* front camber though, due to offset bushings & a good alignment (thanks Edge Motorworks!), so that will definitely help if you can get more front camber.

The consensus I am getting is that the E30's like a lot more spring rate in the back of the car, I plan to run something like 650 front & 800 rear with no rear bar. I'm just not sure how that would apply to the E30 M3, those cars have a different balance to them, & less weight over the front axle. I'm not sure if you frequent bimmerforums or not, but Chris Conant is on there, he has arguably the most successful E30 M3 in SCCA autocrossing. I'm sure he will share some ideas about suspension set-up, he has been running that car a long time.

Hopefully I will see you out there one of these days, look me up if you see me, I would be glad to help in any way possible!

Thanks for the reply, my sway bars are stock, I haven't been able to find anything out about the spring rates, I've emailed Racing Dynamics and not gotten a reply. Reading between the lines, they are about the same as the H&R sport springs but sit lower. I'd like to bring the car up a little to improve the suspension geometry. I'm running 225/45/15 RS3s on the stock wheels, no room to add roll center spacers. The rear Konis are set full hard, but those are going away this afternoon for a set of TC Klein tuned ones, and the front Bilstein sports are going away and being replaced The TC-Klein Konis as well. I've got the Ground Control Camber plates and treehouse control arm bushings all sitting in a box waiting to go on the car this weekend. I need to get this sorted out before my 2nd race of the season next weekend.

I'm not a big fan of scca since I'm already an HSR-West license holder. I don't have any interest in spending a huge amount of money on race group memberships that don't do me any good for most of the time. I occasionally run with the PCA (The Golden Gate chapter doesn't like me, I made all the GT3 owners look bad when I spanked them with my Datsun a couple years ago. I was 13th of 133 drivers, and the 2nd fastest street car next to a GT2 on V710s that were big enough for me to sleep on. They asked me not to come back. I usually run with the Redwood Chapter at the Santa Rosa airport)
I'd like to see what BMWCCA has to offer, but it depends how much the membership is.

Any suggestions on the front end alignment settings?

Thanks,
Will

[GotCone?]

Craig Wilcox had a short stint in a Cooper back in '06 in STX. It couldn't hang with the WRX (at that time) so he aborted it. (one example is Walnut Ridge NT in '06)

I'd love to see some more diverse cars in STX. a JCW Mini and Mazdaspeed 3 would be nice to see developed for the class.

[BlackbirdM3]

Speaking of testing dates ect, about twice a year a friend and I organize and put on an autoX test and tune day at Sears Point. We piggy-back onto a Trackmasters track day and use the whole paddock. I'll keep you guys informed for when we do another. There is so much driving time that people usually call it quits well before the end of the day. The usual complaint we get is "Too much driving time"

Will

[BlackbirdM3]

I installed the rear TC-Klein Koni sports with the mono-ball upper mounts and holy cow, its a different car. I started with the shocks set full hard and its fantastic. I can't wait to get the front struts on with the adjustable camber/caster plates and Treehouse control arm bushings. I think these springs might work, I don't know that super hard spring rates are the way to go. I might be wrong, but with just the rear shocks swapped out, its impressive.

I can get the back end to start to rotate now. I haven't had a chance to really push it through a hard tight corner, but it feels like it might try and step out now.

Will

[GreyLens]

Craig Wilcox had a short stint in a Cooper back in '06 in STX. It couldn't hang with the WRX (at that time) so he aborted it. (one example is Walnut Ridge NT in '06)

I'd love to see some more diverse cars in STX. a JCW Mini and Mazdaspeed 3 would be nice to see developed for the class.

It looks like I'll be running against a very nice 2008 WRX with an experienced driver. He used to run in STU. The STU class here in SA/Austin is a fast bunch of national level types and he always did reasonably well in a tough field. We also have a 2008 Mazdaspeed 3 that just moved to STX this year. I looks like there will also be another MINI signing up in a month or two when they move to Austin.

Last year I battled a 1989 Civic (formally two time national champ car with a relatively new but very talented driver) because of the class hopping thing going on then. I was finalizing the suspension and other things throughout the year so I barely beat him a few times. But, now I think I can take him regularly. He's moved to STS, I guess, but I'll still watch how we compare.

This will be a tough year as well judging on the past performance of the WRX in STU last year. I've watched him drive...very smooth and aggressive. Should be great fun.

I'll post brief results here just to let you know how it goes.

The technical discussion here is very helpful. Thanks to all the contributors.

[imprttuner88]

I should probably not dump a shit ton of money into it and just buy an rx8.

It's what I did :p

<------ '05 model myself

[DblTrbl]

Race2win --- Thanks for sharing. Although for the time being, I'm into autcross just for fun, I want to let you know that I've enjoyed and learned a great deal from this thread. Good luck in our endeavors. I'm sure you'll keep us posted.

Carl

[race2win]

Race2win --- Thanks for sharing. Although for the time being, I'm into autcross just for fun, I want to let you know that I've enjoyed and learned a great deal from this thread. Good luck in our endeavors. I'm sure you'll keep us posted.

Carl

Thanks so much for the kind words! I am glad to share...as I have said all along I want to put together an easy to duplicate package so that other E30 owners can join the fun.

More to come soon on my car, I will be updating the build soon with items such as brakes, seats, shedding some more needless pounds, etc. :p I am also currently talking with some companies about the suspension, I'm hopeful to get that ball rolling soon, although it appears the suspension will not be in the car prior to the start of our local series here in the Bay Area. In the mean-time I will run the car as-is like I did late last year, without the Civics I should still be competitive, but there are a few new players jumping in this year so it will be tough!

Originally Posted by InuFaye
I should probably not dump a shit ton of money into it and just buy an rx8.

It's what I did :razz:

<------ '05 model myself

Not a bad choice at all, we have a local guy that is very quick with his RX8. On the right course, I still think the RX8 will be the car to beat in STX, but I still think I will have something for them

[J308]

Subscribing for when I have time to go back through all the pages and read about things like A/C delete and lightening.

I've enjoyed all the pages I've read so far, thanks for sharing.

[chet3215]

Well it seams this thread my have gone cold but will post anyway. I hope you (race2win) have not lost intrest in your e30 build. I would love to see how things have progressed sense your last post. I my self run an e30 in STX. I have never competed at your level. The closest i got was a National Tour event in someone elses car. I was very interested in the STX cars that day. I figure if i had run my car that day would have been 2-3 secounds off the leading STX RX8 driven by Jeff Hurst. I won't claim to be a good driver and don't fallow SCCA National results to know if this Jeff Hurst is a contender or not but figure i would throw that in.



I may be running a very similar setup to what you where heading towards. I started with TCK's single adjustable coil over setup. (price being the largest factor) I have the Vorshlag camber plates, engergy suspension swaybars front and rear and poly bushings all around. I went with TCK's suggested springs to start but ended up with a set off 600's at the front and 750's at the rear and no rear bar. I like this setup but might add some additional compression dampning to the rear. Im lifting the inside front tire durning the right steady state corner which is causing understeer i don't like. I went with 16" wheels, rota slipstreams and some falkens two years ago but for the last two years ran RS3's. While these tires provide much more grip over the falkens i think the extra diameter is an advantage as well. Without gear ratio changes availible in STX i figure what every makes first gear more usable and extends secound makes this car faster.



Anyway thats a little insite on what i have been trying. Cant wait to here more about your off season testing.

[Nsquared97]

Been wondering about this build too, hope he's still working on it. I'm currently running G-stock, but I definitely plan to run STX once funds line up for a full suspension makeover.

[Cinnabar325is]

I'm pretty certain he had this car up for sale here in the forums 2-3 months ago.

[McCall]

FYI, the SCCA just released the August FasTrack. In there is a proposal to move the 318is to FSP. This the GREAT news and finally the correct class for the car to be nationally competitive.

Go to http://www.sebscca.com/ to give your opinion.