87 325e what class and setup

[chappys4life]

I have been wanting to do some autocross and decided I want to get my 87 325e ready for next season. It is mostly stock to my knowledge and I know its not a desirable I but I will live. What class should I look at?

I have been doing maintenance stuff now on my car but before I make any changes that would but me in a bad classing I wanted to check.

Whats class/setup should I be aim for? I am planning on tearing into suspension soon as I know it is worn out so finding out what would be best.

[Nsquared97]

http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/Documents/2011%20Tech/2011%20stock%20listings.pdf

If your car is 100% stock, then you'll be in G-stock.

Have you autocrossed much before, or are you fairly new to the sport? In my opinion, I would try and stay in G-stock for a while, while you get the suspension freshened and some seat time under your belt. Stock classes allow you to use aftermarket shocks (but springs must remain stock), and you are allowed to change the front swaybar (not rear). You can run R-compound race tires, but must remain on the stock size wheels.

After that, the natural progression would be STX, then DSP (not sure if having an 'e' would put you in a different SP class). Unless you decide to swap motors, then you will be in SM.

I'm sure some other guys will chime in on this, I am no stranger to autoX, but fairly new in an E30.

[Gary Horneck]

If its stock, go with GS. FP is not a bad class either.

You can update the suspension with new OEM rubber, shocks, brakes, exhaust, sway bars, and air filter can be modified. You can run sticky tires in GS, and do rather well. The eta open rear was pretty good on all courses, and I never had any traction issues. We have enough torque with the eta that running it all in 2nd gear was rather effective.

I got too much complaining from the ST guys. So I went to SM and have the car down to 2,300 lbs and usually run alone in class.

[race2win]

I have been wanting to do some autocross and decided I want to get my 87 325e ready for next season. It is mostly stock to my knowledge and I know its not a desirable I but I will live. What class should I look at?

I have been doing maintenance stuff now on my car but before I make any changes that would but me in a bad classing I wanted to check.

Whats class/setup should I be aim for? I am planning on tearing into suspension soon as I know it is worn out so finding out what would be best.

My recommendation is to NOT make very many changes to your car. Once all of the maintenance is up to date, the best advice for someone that is just beginning is to just get seat time. Don't take this the wrong way, but you will be slow at first...even if you spent $10K in parts you will get beat by stock Miatas. Once you have a season or so under your belt, then you can start making upgrades to your car, but until you have a consistent baseline you will never be able to take advantage of those upgrades.

What exactly has been done to your car so far? List EVERYTHING, even the slightest upgrade can have an impact on classing. Do you plan to run with BMWCCA, SCCA, or some other clubs? In SCCA the 84-91 6-cyl E30s are going to be in G-Stock starting next year. If you plan to run SCCA events & your car is currently stock (as in stock suspension, stock seats, stock intake, even stock 14" wheels) my recommendation is to put a set of 195-60-14 Dunlop Star Specs on the stock 14x6 wheels & just drive. Check to see if the local chapter has a street tire or novice class you can run in, that way you won't have to compete directly against Stock-class cars with R-Comp race tires.

Let me know if you have any more questions....I have been doing this sport for a very long time, & I have seen people spend needless money their first year countless times.

[race2win]

http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/...20listings.pdf

If your car is 100% stock, then you'll be in G-stock.

Have you autocrossed much before, or are you fairly new to the sport? In my opinion, I would try and stay in G-stock for a while, while you get the suspension freshened and some seat time under your belt. Stock classes allow you to use aftermarket shocks (but springs must remain stock), and you are allowed to change the front swaybar (not rear). You can run R-compound race tires, but must remain on the stock size wheels.

After that, the natural progression would be STX, then DSP (not sure if having an 'e' would put you in a different SP class). Unless you decide to swap motors, then you will be in SM.

I'm sure some other guys will chime in on this, I am no stranger to autoX, but fairly new in an E30.

Well said, only one minor correction, the sway bar rule is going to change next year...in stock class you will be able to change the front OR rear sway bar...your choice, either/or but not both.

In DSP, all 6-Cyl E30s are on the same line in the book, meaning the hot set-up would be an early non-sunroof 325e with the later model "i" motor, & somewhere around a 3.46 rear diff if it was ever available in an E30. I have been thinking about one of those builds...should be around 22XX lbs with 180-ish WHP, with the 275/15 A6s But, I'm just not sure it would be able to keep up with the E46 330s...they were running BSP times this year :o

Sorry, back on topic....;)

[Nsquared97]

Actually thanks a lot for the info, there's a decent amount that applies to me! I'm going to pm you to pick your brain a bit about setup if you don't mind.

[chappys4life]

Thanks guys for all of the help. I have never done any type of racing so I would be a complete noobie. I am familiar with working on cars and normally do most of my own maintenance but coming from the old car world so everything is newer.

Should I stay with 14's over 15's? Is there and advantage to either?

On maintenance items I was planning:
Control arms, cabs, tie rods, sway bar links, and sway bar bushings - Lemfoerder or oem
Trailing arm bushings and rear subframe mounts - Lemfoerder or oem
Brake job - turner motorsports kit with ultimate pads - should I add ss lines?
Center bearing and Flexible coupling
Motor mounts - Can I go poly or just oem?
Misc vacumm hoses and rubber fuel line in the engine compartment
Redline fluids.

I was debating removing the power steering pump and maybe a/c is that against rules? Should I change my struts or anything?

[Nsquared97]

Thanks guys for all of the help. I have never done any type of racing so I would be a complete noobie. I am familiar with working on cars and normally do most of my own maintenance but coming from the old car world so everything is newer.

Should I stay with 14's over 15's? Is there and advantage to either?

On maintenance items I was planning:
Control arms, cabs, tie rods, sway bar links, and sway bar bushings - Lemfoerder or oem
Trailing arm bushings and rear subframe mounts - Lemfoerder or oem
Brake job - turner motorsports kit with ultimate pads - should I add ss lines?
Center bearing and Flexible coupling
Motor mounts - Can I go poly or just oem?
Misc vacumm hoses and rubber fuel line in the engine compartment
Redline fluids.

I was debating removing the power steering pump and maybe a/c is that against rules? Should I change my struts or anything?

First off, we need to figure out which class you want, as that will determine what you want to do. IMO G Stock will be your best bet, so I will do my best to answer your questions based on that.

For wheels, you have to stay with the same wheel size as stock (diameter and width). For your car this will be 14x6. You can get lighter aftermarket wheels, but keep in mind they have to be within +/- .25" offset iirc. Race2win can probly chime in on this, but you may be able to get away with a set of basketweaves, not sure though. I would assume this would be do-able if your car had the option for them, although at the local level I doubt anybody would put up a fuss. They would be beneficial because they are 6.5" wide instead of 6."

As far as 15's go, they are definitely better for autoX IMO. Less sidewall to flex, and a huge selection of ultra sticky tires that are great for autoX. But again 15's aren't legal for stock.

I can't say a whole lot about the maintainence items, except that it is obviously important to keep the car well maintained. You are allowed to use ss brakes lines since the car was made after 1992, along with a ss clutch line (UUC makes a clutch line, I have one and like it).

Can't say if it is technically 'legal' to remove the AC pump, but I did it. Nobody will give you crap for it unless your at a national tour/divisonal/nationals. It may be allowed if the car had the option of no AC, don't know E30's well enough to know if that's the case.

Firmer aftermarket struts would definitely be a good thing, about the only thing you can do to stiffen up the suspension besides a swaybar. I am personally thinking Koni adjustables. As Race2win pointed out, they are changing the swaybar rule for next year, you will be allowed to change either the front or rear, but not both. His recommendation was to go with a larger/stiffer front bar.

Here's a link to the rules, not a bad idea to read through the "stock" section for allowed modifications. They start on page 71.

http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/Documents/2011%20Tech/2011%20SCCA%20Solo%20Rules.pdf

[race2win]

Nsquared97 is pretty much right on with everything he said, G-Stock is the way to go for you while just starting out. The basket weaves are technically NOT legal though, since they were never available from the factory on the 325E. A great option though is the Kosei K1-TS 14x6 wheel, they are 38 MM offset, so they are legal, but since the stock offset is 35 I would run a 5 MM spacer with the correct BMW hub-centric dimensions (57.1 I believe). I have run this wheel on my ES Miatas for a few years, they are like $99 each from Tire Rack & are only 9.3 lbs.

Unfortunately, it's not legal to remove any part of the A/C system if the car came equipped with it standard. I don't believe it was possible to get a 325 in 1987 without A/C in the US, if so then you can remove it, but you would have to remove all the components the way it would have been from the factory.

For chappys4life, without a limited slip you may want to experiment with REMOVING your rear sway bar rather than upgrading your stock front bar. The cool thing about the new rule change is the flexibility to be able to try different set-ups...on the 325is I say definitely a bigger front bar, but for cars without a LSD, it's hard to say.

All of the maintenance items mentioned are a great start, just remember all of it needs to be OEM or direct replacement in order to stay legal for Stock (except the stainless lines like mentioned above, which are legal on anything older than 1992). Brake pads are un-restricted, but rotors & calipers must stay stock.

I would definitely go Konis for a great in-expensive off-the-shelf adjustable shock. The Bilstien Sports are great, but lack the adjustability that is sometimes needed for autocross.

[chappys4life]

would a 325e be competitive in G-stock? If I did springs to lower it what class would that bump me to? How would the e30 rate in that class?

[Nsquared97]

With the Mini's moved out of G-stock, it has opened up room for some other cars to move in as the top runners for the class. But, aparently next year the 325i/is is being moved down to GS, so I would expect them to be a better choice than a 325e.

With lowering spring you would be bumped to ST (STX if you have a LSD, but the 325e didn't come with one). And in ST unless you have an 89 Civic, you won't be competitive. But realize as you move up classes, it is going to require more modification and more $$ to make a relatively competitive car.

I guess one thing that hasn't been brought up in this thread is the relevance of the term 'competitive.' In my region, we usually get 20-30 drivers per event. Pretty much anybody with a car fully prepped for the rules and halfway decent driving ability will take top 3 in PAX no problem. Most regions are not this way at all, other regions I have run with you will be lucky to place in the top 30 with a well sorted car but less than top notch driving ability. Usually beginners are told this: You won't be competitive when you start, but don't let it nother you. When your starting out the best thing for you is seat time and practice, then worry about getting the car prepped for your class.

[chappys4life]

I was more or less just curious. I figured if the e30 was never going to be that great in stock g class just make mods I want and be so so in the next class up. More or less weighing options.

[Nsquared97]

I was more or less just curious. I figured if the e30 was never going to be that great in stock g class just make mods I want and be so so in the next class up. More or less weighing options.

Yeah. I mean as long as you can understand that you won't have the top car in your class, and may not even be competitive in it, then you'll be fine. Just go out there to have fun and learn some real car control, and enjoy the sport. There are so many cool things about autocross beyond the racing itself, the comeraderie, people you meet, etc. The atmosphere at most events is just awesome.

But be warned, it can get addicting!

[Gary Horneck]

You might not be top in your class, but the 325e will be in the upper 1/3 rd overall. My eta with 14" wheels, a chip and mild suspension mods, places me in the top 1/3 in the raw times, always. I always take SM, but hardly anyone competes in SM here. I like to look at raw times only. Wow! 3.6 seconds behind a Z06 with a National level driver.... cool. Beat the times of those pesky Mini's... cool. PAX shmax

[xxlbimmer]

Basic maintenance first!! Then drive, drive drive!!!!
Don't ever, repeat ever miss an event because you were saving money for an "upgrade"!!! You will gain more speed on the track learning how to drive than you will ever get by adding the flavor of the day upgrades!!!!
Talk to the fast drivers when you get there, most will love to give you advise, as much as they want to hear themselves talk!!
But drive first upgrade later!!