First track event is over, what did I do to my tires!?!?!?

[Sagaris]

Tires: Falken Ziex 912 performance all-season with ~8000 miles of aggressive street use, normal evenly worn with some minor sidewall wear from "fun-zones"
psi: 34 front 32 rear
Suspension: H&R sport, Bilstein sport, ST sway bars
Traffic flow: clockwise (drivers side tires get most of the abuse)



What can you tell me about my tire wear: normal? severe? tires got too hot? I dont have the slightest clue. Let me know your thoughts and if there is anything I can do to help the tires last longer for future events.

Driver Rear:



All 4 of the tires have a strange feathered edge where the leading edge of the tread block has a crest. I have seen a feathered edge going laterally across the width of a tire due to toe-in/toe-out, but never a feathered edge going this direction
ALSO why does it look like worms are eating my tread!?



Driver Front:
Feathered edge on the leading edge of the tread blocks but otherwise I think it fared pretty well

[ONRAILSM3]

If the tires are on your Daily Driver the track will eat them for lunch. The feathering is from wear. Cross rotate them and you will even out the feathering. If they are directional tires rotate front to rear and consider flipping the tires on the rims to even out the edge wear.

Outer edge wear is from lack of camber, feathering is from understeer.

If the tires are more than a year old they are heat cycled out and will be junk in no time at the track.

Consider a new set of street tires that a are more track friendly, do not buy R-compound tires until you are in intermediate.

The squealing tires help you learn.

[nrubenstein]

This is what happens when you melt your tires.

Those are cheap tires, so just run them off. No need to buy anything else.

[Sagaris]

If the tires are on your Daily Driver the track will eat them for lunch. The feathering is from wear. Cross rotate them and you will even out the feathering. If they are directional tires rotate front to rear and consider flipping the tires on the rims to even out the edge wear.

Outer edge wear is from lack of camber, feathering is from understeer.

If the tires are more than a year old they are heat cycled out and will be junk in no time at the track.

Consider a new set of street tires that a are more track friendly, do not buy R-compound tires until you are in intermediate.

The squealing tires help you learn.

On the drive home from the track I could feel a very slight imbalance in the tires/wheels on the freeway (70mph+) as if I lost a wheel weight, this feeling got better after about 20 miles on the freeway and I am guessing the feathering wear is the cause of it or perhaps some very mild flat-spotting.


So I just want to make sure we are on the same page.
Understeer is causing the feathering that I have (feathering from the front to rear of the tread blocks and NOT side to side feathering like this image )



So if that is the case, I am just curious as to how the rear tires got in on that feathering action. I would expect that only the fronts would fall victim to wear due to understeer.

[Sagaris]

This is what happens when you melt your tires.

Those are cheap tires, so just run them off. No need to buy anything else.

Too high of tire temperatures? / driving all seasons beyond what they were intended to do :P

I want to learn how to avoid wrecking a set of more expensive tires and am very grateful for what you more experienced drivers might have to say.
Do you suppose that a set of summer tires would have held up better?

[Eric]

Too high of tire temperatures? / driving all seasons beyond what they were intended to do :P

yes & yes

I want to learn how to avoid wrecking a set of more expensive tires and am very grateful for what you more experienced drivers might have to say.

Learn how to not overdrive a tire. Fast is smooth, smooth is fast. Hook up with your local BMWCCA and attend one of their driving schools. They are a blast and you'll probably find out some bad habits that you never knew you were doing.

Do you suppose that a set of summer tires would have held up better?

yes, but summer tires still get cooked if your overdriving them.

[Nsquared97]

Learn how to not overdrive a tire. Fast is smooth, smooth is fast.

This. I see it all the time at autoX's. It's very easy to overdrive your tires, hell I did it a lot when I was new to autoX. Learning how to work with the limits of a given set of tires will make you a much faster driver, and make your tires much happier with you.

Edit: OP, which track were you at?

[Sagaris]

It was a local BMWCCA event at Blackhawk Farms.

[e30trooper]

this happened to my fusion hri's . Took them to the track. first or 6 lap felt pretty predicable after that hella naw. After the 6th laps it felt like I was driving in the rain.

After the 2nd session had melted rubber balls all over the tires.
Dont eva eva take all season to the track lol.

top two tires were my fronts. You can also see in my sig i have a pretty aggressive camber. But also it was 103* outside so the track must have been 135* or more.



edit: this photo was 200 or more miles after the track session.

[NigelStu]

Feathering like that will happen when pushing tires with a lot of tread depth like yours - front and rear would indicate you are actually getting some decent slip angle in the rear to go with the push up front. Tread Squirm and pattern will allow certain areas or the block to wear before others, and in non-intuitive ways - hence the profile. Blackhawk is hard on brakes and tires. Normal to see a bit more aggressive tire wear from that track.

Worms eating the treads - heat. Partially due to tread squirm. But really doesn't look too bad. I'd say that is more about a higher UTOG rating getting a bit too hot and starting to chunk at a small scale. And tread squirm.


Not necessarily over-driving the car, but definitely tire temps a bit above desirable. I don't see any bluing in the pictures, so (unless these particular tires do not turn blue when super-heated), I don't think the tires got way above temp range. You could be adding more turn angle than needed - sometimes if the car starts to push a bit with front tires wailing, all you need to do is reduce your steering input a few degrees.



Few questions:
What were your HOT tire pressures? 34 up front seems high for cold starting point, especially considering the 32 rear. How did you come about with those as starting points?

And what are your FR camber/caster numbers? More camber (static and dynamic) up front will help with wear patterns and increase front grip balancing the car out.



Now the most important question....
Got video????? :D

[Sagaris]

Feathering like that will happen when pushing tires with a lot of tread depth like yours - front and rear would indicate you are actually getting some decent slip angle in the rear to go with the push up front. Tread Squirm and pattern will allow certain areas or the block to wear before others, and in non-intuitive ways - hence the profile. Blackhawk is hard on brakes and tires. Normal to see a bit more aggressive tire wear from that track.

Worms eating the treads - heat. Partially due to tread squirm. But really doesn't look too bad. I'd say that is more about a higher UTOG rating getting a bit too hot and starting to chunk at a small scale. And tread squirm.


Not necessarily over-driving the car, but definitely tire temps a bit above desirable. I don't see any bluing in the pictures, so (unless these particular tires do not turn blue when super-heated), I don't think the tires got way above temp range. You could be adding more turn angle than needed - sometimes if the car starts to push a bit with front tires wailing, all you need to do is reduce your steering input a few degrees.



Few questions:
What were your HOT tire pressures? 34 up front seems high for cold starting point, especially considering the 32 rear. How did you come about with those as starting points?

And what are your FR camber/caster numbers? More camber (static and dynamic) up front will help with wear patterns and increase front grip balancing the car out.



Now the most important question....
Got video????? :D

Thanks for the info/input!

YES I have video. I have only uploaded the first 11 min of my 2nd session (only had a 1GB SD card on that run) and a few other shorter clips of watching another run-group. I had a few 4GB cards in for my 3rd and 4th sessions where I was driving much better and making progress.

Heres the 2nd session out


The car had incredible balance through the carousel, throttle-steer was very easy and I was able to get through it at about 70mph, I was always pushing into turn 4. I know I need work on having smoother inputs. I got much better at late braking on runs 3 and 4

[Eric]

keep your hands at 9 and 3 o'clock, not 10/2. it looks like you are using the steering wheel to support your body weight into a corner. Try snapping your seatbelt to engage the lock mechanism, then slide the seat forward to hold yourself into the seat tightly. The is a cheap trick to do if you aren't using harnesses.

[Sagaris]

keep your hands at 9 and 3 o'clock, not 10/2. it looks like you are using the steering wheel to support your body weight into a corner. Try snapping your seatbelt to engage the lock mechanism, then slide the seat forward to hold yourself into the seat tightly. The is a cheap trick to do if you aren't using harnesses.

The tips are appreciated.

heres a video from a car behind me that I found online today (I am the black E30)


Im glad to have this perspective since I can get a feel for how much closer I can get to the edge of the track/apex in a turn.

[Dave]

keep your hands at 9 and 3 o'clock, not 10/2. it looks like you are using the steering wheel to support your body weight into a corner. Try snapping your seatbelt to engage the lock mechanism, then slide the seat forward to hold yourself into the seat tightly. The is a cheap trick to do if you aren't using harnesses.

It also looks like at times you are "pushing up" on the wheel with your right hand to turn left and vice versa.

With your hands at 9-3 it is easier to more properly pull down. You want to pull down with your right hand to turn right and pull down with your left hand to turn left. You have finer more precise control over the muscles you use doing it that way and will be smoother.

[Eric]

I can get a feel for how much closer I can get to the edge of the track/apex in a turn.

Yes, you paid for that real estate, don't put it to waste.

I see a few times that you have a pretty aggressive turn in, but then you don't even get down into the apex. Corner entry is important for corner exit speed... It's better to slow down your corner entry speed a bit to learn how to maximize mid corner, and corner exit.