Any swapped cars competitive in autocross?

[Nsquared97]

I love my z214s btw, I paid less than 700 bucks for them and I am on my 2nd full season and they still have plenty of life for another year.

Very happy to hear this, I have the same tire, but 225/50/14 on basketweaves running GS. Loving them so far, grip is incredible. Very curious to see what kind of life I get out of them, was hoping at least a full season.

Now I did notice that those z214's aren't terrible cost-prohibitive, but as I understand it R-comps are a drastically different experience in terms of on-the-limit adhesion and warning signs. As a novice that probably wouldn't be ideal.

Z214's are definitely a steal compared to A6's, even if they aren't quite as grippy. I would love to see a head to head comparo between the 2 actually, very curious what the time differential on a decent course would be.

But as you said, it is definitely a great idea to stick to street tires for a bit before you jump to R-comps, they are a different animal. Tons of fun though, and I will warn you now, once you try them you won't want to go back haha.

Also guys, for anyone interested in R-comps but doesn't want to pay that much for them, check into used tires, espicially this site: http://www.johnbtires.com/
Most of his tires are take-offs that have only ran a couple laps, and have at least 75% tread left. Give him a call, usually better deals than whats on the site. Buddy of mine got a set of 295/18 A6's that had done 2 laps at Road America and were taken off for less than $500 shipped, you can't get much better than that.

[EtaSport]

Yea I have been doing this for almost 5 years now so I've had plenty of trips through the cones. I've had the car 10 years so I know it like the back of my hand too. I went to r-comps last year, I was over driving all of my street tires. So the extra grip was very welcome.

[evandael]

Thanks! It does seem like the road tire PAX is to placate those with cheaper mindsets, me included. Now I did notice that those z214's aren't terrible cost-prohibitive, but as I understand it R-comps are a drastically different experience in terms of on-the-limit adhesion and warning signs. As a novice that probably wouldn't be ideal.


I'll certainly try to make it out for one of those events... just to watch though! My E30 is in pieces and I don't know if my GLI would enjoy being tossed around.

[EtaSport]

Check out the susquehanna group here, http://www.scca-susq.com/autox.html I don't know if there is specific info on the PAX road tire class. I believe it was something SCCA was offering to give guys who couldn't step up to a full R-comp a chance to see how they stack up.

I broke in my Toyo R1Rs (road tire) a few weeks ago and ended up 26th out of 100 in RAW times, next week I went back to the Hankooks and finished 9th. I love my z214s btw, I paid less than 700 bucks for them and I am on my 2nd full season and they still have plenty of life for another year.

We have two more events in Hershey in October. It'll be chilly I'm sure, makes it hard for us on slicks to get good times, but you should come out and I can get you some good points for getting competitive. I can probably get out on a ride along too.

[evandael]

Clubs are so different through-out. Sometimes I don't like running with my group. Central PA does have quite a few National Champion drivers though. We also have a new Road Tire class for PAX. It really doesnt matter which class you are in, they figure R-comps give you at least 3 seconds, so if you are in SM running road tires you can get PAX results in the RT class.

I run a 225/45/15 Hankook c71 all around on my car. Course depended I am top 5, top 10 consistently in RAW times. There are absolutely no other SM cars to compete against these days. It's usually the pro-level drivers and guys who have been doing this for 30 years who can squeak by me..

This is excellent news. So if you ran your car on 140 treadwear tires, you would be in SM-RT but with PAX correction, times may compare to other SM cars on race rubber? You sound like you're really competitive in SM on those Hankooks. I'd prefer to save money on tires and spend it instead on more race time in my SCCA infancy, but it'd be nice to have at least some sort of competitiveness or basis for comparison (instead of just racing myself).


I'm in central/SWPA. Have any good links for me to read up more on the Road Tire classes you were describing? I'm brand new to this but always love to read more.

[EtaSport]

Clubs are so different through-out. Sometimes I don't like running with my group. Central PA does have quite a few National Champion drivers though. We also have a new Road Tire class for PAX. It really doesnt matter which class you are in, they figure R-comps give you at least 3 seconds, so if you are in SM running road tires you can get PAX results in the RT class.

I run a 225/45/15 Hankook c71 all around on my car. Course depended I am top 5, top 10 consistently in RAW times. There are absolutely no other SM cars to compete against these days. It's usually the pro-level drivers and guys who have been doing this for 30 years who can squeak by me.

I need to get out and run with some different groups. My set-up would be similar to the above, obd1 s50 with stage 2 turner kit. headers and full exhaust, g260 with 3.73 (runs out of Rs at times, sometimes 3rd is required).

All the bushings are poly, camber is around -2.5 up front, ST sways, IE springs. Interior is stripped from front seats back, trunk is empty.

[91Saleen#15]

My car:

s50,
ZF tranny,
2.93 diff,
275/15 hoosier A6s
Ireland coilovers, camber plates
Bilstein sports
800 lb springs rear
700 lb springs front
Conforti chip
stock interior except Corbeau racing seat

I can usually get the car into the top 10 raw times, sometimes top 5 depending on the course. Good co-drivers have run the FTOD on many occasions.

[Jean]

True. The rule SCCA rule book pits me against (and these are cars I see at events): 550hp fully stripped and caged cobra on hoosiers, 335's in the front, 355's in the rear, 400+whp stripped Evo on R comps, 500whp AWD Eclipse... completely different ball game.

That doesn't sound like SM class, do you race in X Prepared? SM requires interior.....

[matthugie]

Autocross like racing is all about the rule book and classing of the cars.

I never compared SCCA to BMWCCA. Two different rule books.

As far as BMWCCA San Diego goes this car is quick and has run top of its class at our events a number of times.

True. The rule SCCA rule book pits me against (and these are cars I see at events): 550hp fully stripped and caged cobra on hoosiers, 335's in the front, 355's in the rear, 400+whp stripped Evo on R comps, 500whp AWD Eclipse... completely different ball game.

[L8 apexr]

Autocross like racing is all about the rule book and classing of the cars.

I never compared SCCA to BMWCCA. Two different rule books.

As far as BMWCCA San Diego goes this car is quick and has run top of its class at our events a number of times.

Like I said don't take offence but for how the car classes in the scca it will get let in the dust regardless of how you do agaisn't other bmw's.I'm not saying scca rules are the best btw,far to complicated for the sport imo.

I've spent a couple decades building cars to rule books so I get that better than most,in fact the rules have been changed a few times(in 2 different sports I compete in) due to my cars.Weird how people can get rules changed when they can't catch the guy that applies the rules to the max.

[Jaxx_]

To answer some people's question, our chapters around NC have Tire class, which is a PAX adjusted class, similar to Novice. So I used to run TIR FSP and I run against others that are street tires, but then adjusted with PAX. So I can compete against CSP miatas and other such cars if they are in TIR class. If I run race tires I run regular FSP with a few other people. Tire makes it easy if you don't want to change tires at the event or you don't want to spend the money on ridiculous tires.

Hope that makes sense.

[e30pq]

Are they using scca classing or their own take on it to suit bmw's?.

No offence but that on board vid is way off pace of what a fast car in the class should be(Street mod on dot r's or STX I think on true streets).We have a street mod subaru up here that is blazing quick and is usually #1 pax and not far behind my A-mod car.

Autocross like racing is all about the rule book and classing of the cars.

I never compared SCCA to BMWCCA. Two different rule books.

As far as BMWCCA San Diego goes this car is quick and has run top of its class at our events a number of times.

[Jean]

BMWCCA autocross for the most part is a joke, kind like PCA autocross, like 90% of them are SLOW.

Compared to SCCA that is :)

Here is one of my runs in SM last year with M30B35. On Re-valved billy sports, gc coils/camber plates/rear mounts, trm wheels/kumho tires. Stock steering rack (awful).

Sorry it's B/W as it was after the camera fell from the car on the previous run.

[L8 apexr]

My S50 E30 cabrio is competitive is BMWCCA autocrosses.

Obviously other factors involved here like:
- suspension
- tires
- driver capability
- color of your car (ok I guess this one doesn't matter)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L11dXzgOSQ0&feature=plcp

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=107147

Are they using scca classing or their own take on it to suit bmw's?.

No offence but that on board vid is way off pace of what a fast car in the class should be(Street mod on dot r's or STX I think on true streets).We have a street mod subaru up here that is blazing quick and is usually #1 pax and not far behind my A-mod car.

[matthugie]

I haven't tried and BMWCCA autocrosses yet, I've just done the local SCCA chapter events. I could see it being competitive there though, and it might be fun to surprise some people...

Edit: Your car is absolutely amazing btw. That is now pretty much at the top of my list of favorite cars here, sooooo clean.