Slow Progression Towards Racing, Vet My Next Step?

[Earendil]

Conclusion: I have ended up going with the following:

H&R Race - Far easier to sell if I go full coilover in the future. Easier to sell if I decide I don't like them.

No Camber Plates - There is a camber plate difference between H&R (and j-stock) springs and most Coilovers. Meaning if I bought them now, I'd need new ones when I go coilover. Not worth the transition cost.

IE 25/22mm Sway Bars - By all accounts these are the best ones to pair with a racing suspension, and will not negatively impact suspension with H&R race (though perhaps not ideal). No point in buying swaybars twice.

Thank you everyone for your input! If I decide that the H&R race are perfectly acceptable on the street, and I want stiffer for the track, I can always flip them and put J-Stock in. Similarly, if I decide not to go PRO3 I can put camber plates in and call it complete.

Cheers!

[Earendil]

The club is having a tech session this saturday at 425 motorsports in Bellevue.I'm sure that there will be many helpful club members and PRO3 racers there to help answer your questions.
http://www.bmwpugetsound.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=47479

Son of a... I just found out about that a few days ago when they sent the email, but didn't know the itinerary until your post. Unfortunately, I'm already signed up for (andh ave been for over a week) my first amateur kart race Saturday morning.

Who do I blame for holding an amateur kart race the same time as an amateur racing 101 tech session?
I digress...

[SGT4677]

The club is having a tech session this saturday at 425 motorsports in Bellevue.I'm sure that there will be many helpful club members and PRO3 racers there to help answer your questions.

http://www.bmwpugetsound.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=47479

[Earendil]

Why don't you just drive your arse back down to Portland this weekend and help Ben and I get my car ready for the race season..

I'm signed up for a kart race at PGP this weekend or I would! Pick a different weekend!

[djjerme]

Why don't you just drive your arse back down to Portland this weekend and help Ben and I get my car ready for the race season..

[Earendil]

So, I opened this thread to say I had decided on what to get, but I stubbornly read through this thread again and am now squarely back on the fence.

*sigh*

The bit of input I can give that might change the suggestions, is that I'll probably shoot for a GC coilover with custom springs if I race in Pro-3. This means that the H&R race and J-Stock are just the hold-over solution until I decide to race or not.

I'm also thinking that the Camber plates for a stock sized front spring (H&R/J-Stock) is different than the camber plate requirement for most coilovers. If that's correct, than it would be silly to get Camber plates right now, as they will just need to be replaced in a couple years when I move to Coilovers.

As for Sways, it looks like the eventually setup would be the IE front 25mm bar. However for the back, I think I might still go with the Bimmerworld one, since I read a lot of great things about its geometry compared to the others. Since some people choose to disconnect the rear bar, how silly would it be for me to only have the front bar installed right now, and leave the rear bar stock for a year?

I really need to just stop thinking and go drive...

[bimmerboy709]

I'm not sure if that's $195 for all four corners or per corner. It's either less expensive than a Bilstein revalve, or more expensive than buying brand new J-Stock valves bilsteins from turner ($650 for all four corners).

Actually i gave you the wrong info. Feal suspension also does motocross work and I gave you the info for that. lol. oops.

search "feal suspension" in google and search in their auto section to get an idea of how much revalving is.

Or you can just call up Odi at feal and he can let you know everything you want to know and from what I've been told he's very willing to help and is incredibly knowledgable.

[Emre]

If I understand Emre correctly, revalving would be ideal, but they will function adequately as is. Is that correct?

Exactly.

[Earendil]

Well at feal suspension:

Shock: $ 195.00* for revalving which consists of:
Full disassembly and inspection of all parts
Custom valving based on your weight, height, riding ability, and terrain you ride
Reassembly replacing any worn parts and using high quality suspension fluids and greases
Custom settings such as oil level ensuring your suspension performance potential is maximized
Feal Suspension decals

So your getting your bang for you buck here. It seems pricey but worth it once those stock valved billy sports decide to give.

I'm not sure if that's $195 for all four corners or per corner. It's either less expensive than a Bilstein revalve, or more expensive than buying brand new J-Stock valves bilsteins from turner ($650 for all four corners).

[Earendil]

No revalving needed? (yet)

I've thought that since the intensity of the j-stock spring rates were so high, you would need them revalved to withstand all that stiffness.

If I understand Emre correctly, revalving would be ideal, but they will function adequately as is. Is that correct?

What does revalving a shock cost? Other places have a rebuild from blistering listed at $60 a corner, and I'm wondering how a modification like that compares cost wise.

[bimmerboy709]

Sure. I ran J-Stock springs with stock Bilstein Sports for at least 2 years. They work fine.

I'm hardly the first guy who thought of doing this. I've been driving e30s for 20 years. Before the popularity of Ground Control, we all ran J-Stock/Gruppe-N springs. Very few people bothered to have their Bilsteins custom valved; we ran them as-is.

No revalving needed? (yet)

I've thought that since the intensity of the j-stock spring rates were so high, you would need them revalved to withstand all that stiffness.

[Emre]

So your saying J-stock springs are okay to be used with billy sports?

Sure. I ran J-Stock springs with stock Bilstein Sports for at least 2 years. They work fine.

I'd just think they wouldn't be helpful. With springs that stiff the shocks sure wouldn't move around that much :)

I'm hardly the first guy who thought of doing this. I've been driving e30s for 20 years. Before the popularity of Ground Control, we all ran J-Stock/Gruppe-N springs. Very few people bothered to have their Bilsteins custom valved; we ran them as-is.

[Earendil]

So your saying J-stock springs are okay to be used with billy sports?

Given the springs rates of j-stock springs, I would think the billy sports would not last long. Is this because the j-stock springs are progressive?

I'd just think they wouldn't be helpful. With springs that stiff the shocks sure wouldn't move around that much :)

[!kid]

And you don't even need custom-valved shocks; they'll work just fine with off-the-shelf Bilstein Sports.

So your saying J-stock springs are okay to be used with billy sports?

Given the springs rates of j-stock springs, I would think the billy sports would not last long. Is this because the j-stock springs are progressive?

[Emre]

I hope I'm not giving away the secrets of the Guten Parts race prep team, but the magic combination for a track-driven E30 is this:

• Turner Motorsport J-Stock Springs;
• Bilstein Sport dampers revalved to Firehawk spec;
• Ireland Engineering swaybar and mount set.

I had that set-up on my old E30 318is track toy. My car had a stock M20B25 engine, 4.10:1 LSD, a Massive Brakes "Sport" BBK, and a full interior (except for a/c delete and no rear seat). The suspension was as described above, with standard 15x7" TDR ProRace 1.2 wheels:



With that set-up, I was pulling faster lap times around Le Circuit Mont-Tremblant than all the Spec E30's and a pair of stripped, M50-powered, prepared-class BMW CCA club racers. They were all on R-comps (Toyo RA-1's) and I was on street tires (Hankook R-S3's).

It was the same thing at Mosport and Watkins Glen. The other E30's couldn't touch me, even the ones with M50 swaps. I'm pretty much the only guy in the Instructor group who used to run his E30 on street tires, so most of those guys had a big tire advantage over me. Most of them also had a weight advantage. If I was passing them, it was down to suspension and track knowledge (Tremblant and Mosport are my home tracks).