BRZ vs E30

[Hooffenstein HD]

The NA 2JZ are still suprisingly tough motors. A friend put a T88 on one and it made ~700 hp. He stepped it down to a T76, making 600 and something hp, it lasted a year of drift abuse.

[87e30]

Yes, the 2JZ-GTE and the 2JZ-GE are different motors. The turbo motor is built for boost, and the naturally aspirated one isn't.

The IS300 gearing is surprisingly low, even the auto. It's very similar to E30 5 speed gearing, sitting at 3500 at 80. Fun little car. Stupid looking exhaust and rather tacky interior though.

Yeah. But something japanese about it which I like, and I presume it to hold together a little better as well. I was just shocked it didn't drive like it was on a cloud.

Gotcha on the motors... never looked into them because diving into the huge world of epic 2jz boost just isn't anywhere I want to go lol

[Wh33lhop]

Oh rly? My mistake. I know I've read that you can't just throw a turbo on them though (well reliably) because they aren't the same supra motor everyone loves. I know they can be boosted easily, but it's not the same as the supra motor. Interesting though...

Yes, the 2JZ-GTE and the 2JZ-GE are different motors. The turbo motor is built for boost, and the naturally aspirated one isn't.

The IS300 gearing is surprisingly low, even the auto. It's very similar to E30 5 speed gearing, sitting at 3500 at 80. Fun little car. Stupid looking exhaust and rather tacky interior though.

[87e30]

I do like the hp to torque though. 4th gear around 55 is fun. And its not too hard to make fast. Suspension wise, its much tighter then my e30 ever was.

Was surprised when I drove one how non lexus they are... aka how japanese sporty they feel. Awesome cars.

[87e30]

Is300s do come with 2jzs. They dont come with 2jz-gtes. Its the same NA 2j that they put in a boatload of things.

Oh rly? My mistake. I know I've read that you can't just throw a turbo on them though (well reliably) because they aren't the same supra motor everyone loves. I know they can be boosted easily, but it's not the same as the supra motor. Interesting though...

[Justin_Tyme]

I do like the hp to torque though. 4th gear around 55 is fun. And its not too hard to make fast. Suspension wise, its much tighter then my e30 ever was.

[Wh33lhop]

Is300s do come with 2jzs. They dont come with 2jz-gtes. Its the same NA 2j that they put in a boatload of things.

Yep

It's not all that special... does sound decent though.

[Stephen]

Is300s do come with 2jzs. They dont come with 2jz-gtes. Its the same NA 2j that they put in a boatload of things.

[87e30]

The IS300 isn't a bad looking car. It does have a fantastic engine, and I have to admit, the dash is pretty darn cool looking. Had they made a 2 door version, it might have gotten a little more of my attention. Still, they are a bit on the heavy side and finding one with a manual transmission is tough. It surprisingly doesn't have a lot of power out of the 2JZ, 217 hp seems a bit sedate considering the Euro versions of the S14b23 were at 215 out of 2.3L 15 years earlier, in a lighter car no less. Also, if I'm not mistaken the Supra also used the 2JZ GTE (that would be the turbo correct?) and it made how much hp? You'd think Lexus would have done a little tuning to give it a little more go. Still, find a wrecked last gen Supra turbo, you have an engine swap that is more or less not even a swap but an upgrade of the stock motor.

It's not a 2JZ. You need to learn more about the car before speaking this much. I don't know enough more to really comment much. You can't compare the is300 with an e30 M3...

The IS300 still isn't anything close to a sports car, not that any E30 is either. GT car, yes, sports car, no.

Had Toyburu made the cars more stripped down, with better visibility out the rear; something closer to a Lotus Elise (in terms of being a minimalist masterpiece) I might be more inclined to like it. I don't want power windows or seats, the torson LSD is a joke, put a tightly shimmed clutch type in there. Loose the stupid GPS system, heated seats God forbid the heated seats!!! What are modern cars coming too?!?!?, the whole rear seat. The warranty is total crap. 36000 miles? Are you kidding? I put 20K on my M3 in the first year I owned it. The fact that they only waranty the car for 3 years or 36K miles tells me its just not meant to last. I think I might have been generous giving it a 5 year lifespan. Planned obsolescence is great for selling cars but crap for the consumer.

Sorry, I'll take an E30 over a BRZ any day of the week. I seriously can't find a single reason I'd want to own one. We get it

Will

:yawn:

You're not the audience for this. You're apparently not the audience for anything. People who work too much or don't care enough to work on their own cars want some other options out there besides God's Chariot...

[BlackbirdM3]

Will, that's a great description of my somewhat recent car purchase. Couldn't have said it better. I loved my e30 for all of the above reasons, other then the comfort. So, I went in the direction of my current car 04' IS300. Fits all of the criteria and is "true" toyota at heart, with the motor designed by the gods. :) I would take my car over the BRZ/FRS anyday...

The IS300 isn't a bad looking car. It does have a fantastic engine, and I have to admit, the dash is pretty darn cool looking. Had they made a 2 door version, it might have gotten a little more of my attention. Still, they are a bit on the heavy side and finding one with a manual transmission is tough. It surprisingly doesn't have a lot of power out of the 2JZ, 217 hp seems a bit sedate considering the Euro versions of the S14b23 were at 215 out of 2.3L 15 years earlier, in a lighter car no less. Also, if I'm not mistaken the Supra also used the 2JZ GTE (that would be the turbo correct?) and it made how much hp? You'd think Lexus would have done a little tuning to give it a little more go. Still, find a wrecked last gen Supra turbo, you have an engine swap that is more or less not even a swap but an upgrade of the stock motor.

The IS300 still isn't anything close to a sports car, not that any E30 is either. GT car, yes, sports car, no.

Had Toyburu made the cars more stripped down, with better visibility out the rear; something closer to a Lotus Elise (in terms of being a minimalist masterpiece) I might be more inclined to like it. I don't want power windows or seats, the torson LSD is a joke, put a tightly shimmed clutch type in there. Loose the stupid GPS system, heated seats, the whole rear seat. The warranty is total crap. 36000 miles? Are you kidding? I put 20K on my M3 in the first year I owned it. The fact that they only waranty the car for 3 years or 36K miles tells me its just not meant to last. I think I might have been generous giving it a 5 year lifespan. Planned obsolescence is great for selling cars but crap for the consumer.

Sorry, I'll take an E30 over a BRZ any day of the week. I seriously can't find a single reason I'd want to own one.

Will

[Justin_Tyme]

No, I use electricity just like everyone else. Whale oil is hard to find, and stupid expensive. Not to mention its sooty.

I seriously can't see a reason to buy a BRZ. Its got zero collectability, you can't see out of the thing, its loaded with crap that I couldn't care less about (blue tooth, sat nav, ect. Its all driver distractions. The world doesn't need anymore distracted drivers (Yes I know every single new car comes with this crap, and its still crap no matter who makes the car.)

When I buy a car the first thing I look at is future resale value. As in, can I sell it for what I paid for it? If I can't I don't bother looking any closer at the car. 2nd, Can I see out the back of the car so I can back into a parking spot, or see the little kid standing behind me as I start to back up, while looking over my shoulder. If I can't, I don't buy the car. (That rules out 100% of the new cars on the market today. Epic design fail.) 3, is it a pure drivers car with no distractions? If the distractions can't be removed or disabled, I'm not buying the car. No I don't consider a stereo a distraction. I do consider GPS, bluetooth ect a distraction. No, I do not talk on the phone while driving ever. The phone is usually turned off. 4. Is the car designed to last at least 25 years? If not, its not worth buying. Again, this rules out 100% of the new cars on the market today. 5. Can I work on it without the need for a computer to tell me whats wrong? If no, I'm not buying the car. Again, rules out 100% of the new cars on the market. 6. Will the car outperform the car I already have everywhere? No? I'm not buying the car. (Granted, a car with 400 hp will out run my current cars in a straight line. How about through a corner? No? No purpose buying the car. I don't give a rats ass about straight line speed. Anyone can go fast in a straight line. Still, If I can lay the smack down on a Porsche GT3, let alone every singe one at an autoX with a 45 year old 2L street driven Datsun, I fail to see the point in buying the Porsche. The M3 will likely hold its own in the same scenario as well.)

Guess what? A BRZ fails on every point (as does every new car on the market that I can think of). I fail to see the reason to buy one other than the allure of it being a new car. An e30 provides me with all the creature comforts I could ever want, I can see out of the thing, in the case of the M3, I can sell it for more than I paid for it. I can work on it, its a great car to drive. I can't ask for anything more. Sure it sucks in stop and go traffic, but what manual transmission car doesn't? Its perfectly happy on the freeway, gets good fuel economy, its fast enough on the street, and it will show its tail lights to many cars on the track and on an autoX course.

Sorry, I fail to see why I would want a BRZ.

Will

Will, that's a great description of my somewhat recent car purchase. Couldn't have said it better. I loved my e30 for all of the above reasons, other then the comfort. So, I went in the direction of my current car 04' IS300. Fits all of the criteria and is "true" toyota at heart, with the motor designed by the gods. :) I would take my car over the BRZ/FRS anyday...

[TobyB]

They are cheap, disposable, and never meant to last.

This, ftw. Perfect for spec racing, track days, and other pointless exercises.
Because, unlike a Miata, it has a top. So it can do CCA days, too.
And, most importantly, the engine turns the right pair of wheels.
Just like an E30, which has proven to be a pretty nice track car, in several forms...

As a fellow roadster owner, those were meant to be cheap and disposable, too.

t

[BlackbirdM3]

This. Also, if your first qualification for a car is resale value where you want to at least get your money back, you're insane. Cars are depreciating assets with the exception of a few collectors cars, and even those have price cycles. Congrats, your M3 is worth more than when you bought it. To buy another car you'll have to speculate on what people will want next and hope you're right.

That might be true, but so far I'm 4 for 4 on appreciating cars. As far as I'm concerned, a BRZ (in whatever variant) might as well be a Miata with a top. In 5 years they will be in 24hrs of Lemons and not worth a damn thing. They are cheap, disposable, and never meant to last.

Will

[matthugie]

Great for you. For YOU. If you can't wrap your head around the concept of the brz then you're either very thick or simply trying to make a point. I can't imagine myself buying one either, but I love what it stands for and hope this means more entry into the market (Honda please!).

This. Also, if your first qualification for a car is resale value where you want to at least get your money back, you're insane. Cars are depreciating assets with the exception of a few collectors cars, and even those have price cycles. Congrats, your M3 is worth more than when you bought it. To buy another car you'll have to speculate on what people will want next and hope you're right.

[87e30]

blah blah blah

Great for you. For YOU. If you can't wrap your head around the concept of the brz then you're either very thick or simply trying to make a point. I can't imagine myself buying one either, but I love what it stands for and hope this means more entry into the market (Honda please!).