Brakes - Track Prep

[BraveUlysses]

I'm planning on hitting the track a bunch this year, after being away for two years now--my 318iS needs a bit of work so I'm looking for suggestions.

I have pads (PF06's) and rotors with lots of life left so that is not a concern. Front brake shields have been removed too.

I want new/rebuilt brakes and I have girling calipers.

- Rebuild brakes with stainless steel pistons from bimmerworld? Worth the money?

- New brake lines - Stainless or OEM?

- Fluid recommendations? I've been using ATE blue but I'm open to suggestions.

Also, how do you determine if you should replace or upgrade/replace your master cylinder and brake booster? I recently picked up a really nice e30 325iS and the brake pedal feels so much better--the travel is much shorter and firmer but I don't think it's due to the brake fluid needing a change in the 318iS.

Thanks!

[seatown88]

Rebuild kits for the Girling calipers are cheap and easy. I rebuilt the calipers on my PRO3 car along with my friends build and was amazed with the sludge that was in the piston bore. Pick up a some new guide pins for the Girling as well and repack them with grease to try and reduce taper wear as much as possible.

I don't know if the stainless pistons are worth it or not. If not needed, I wouldn't worry about new pistons. A quick inspection of the bore and piston will tell you if they need to be replaced. If they do need to be replaced it's probably cheaper to buy replacement calipers. If you can have the car down for a little bit, I would disassemble the calipers before deciding to buy a rebuild kit or remanufactured calipers.

I run stainless lines, however I know jlevie recommends oem rubber lines and I would follow his recommendations.

I run ATE superblue in my car, have had not issues with fluid.

what tracks are you planning on running?

[djjerme]

I second what Bill says..

When in doubt, go OEM - remember, these cars were designed to run the Autobahn daily, so the stock brakes can slow 2800 pounds of German steel from triple digits with ease.

That being said, stainless brake lines are never a bad upgrade because rubber does swell and can cause some spongeness in the pedal feel as it expands and contracts. This only gets worse as they age.

For pads, it depends on the tracks you are planning to run, and how much track time you are going to see, and your driving style. The stock setup will still out brake a Miata..

Last year, I rocked rebuilt, stock calipers with new guide pins, aftermarket pads (DT10's iirc), the cheapest rotors I could find, ATE super blue and no brake ducting. Even after the sprint races I never felt any brake fade. This year, I have stepped it up with some brake ducts - only because I was seeing a bit of cracking on the rotors after a few weekends and because I am thinking of stepping up the pads to PF08's.

As for the master cylinder, I wouldn't worry about it unless it leaks (which is an issue I had when I was building the car.)

[BraveUlysses]

Rebuild kits for the Girling calipers are cheap and easy. I rebuilt the calipers on my PRO3 car along with my friends build and was amazed with the sludge that was in the piston bore. Pick up a some new guide pins for the Girling as well and repack them with grease to try and reduce taper wear as much as possible.

I don't know if the stainless pistons are worth it or not. If not needed, I wouldn't worry about new pistons. A quick inspection of the bore and piston will tell you if they need to be replaced. If they do need to be replaced it's probably cheaper to buy replacement calipers. If you can have the car down for a little bit, I would disassemble the calipers before deciding to buy a rebuild kit or remanufactured calipers.

I run stainless lines, however I know jlevie recommends oem rubber lines and I would follow his recommendations.

I run ATE superblue in my car, have had not issues with fluid.

what tracks are you planning on running?

I'm planning on running at the Ridge, Pacific, Portland and ORP.

Are/were you a VRI student by chance? I was a grad in 2005. Nice build thread on your race car!

I have a set of extra brakes that I took off a parts car that I will be rebuilding so I won't have any downtime issues to worry about.

Sounds like I could hold off on the stainless pistons and just save that money for bushings :)

[Earendil]

When I redid my brake system I just rebuilt the calipers, used blank rotors, HPS+ pads, and ATE super blue. I ended up with reputable stainless steel brake lines from bimmer world, but I'd go OEM if I did it again. For starters, it's easier to inspect OEM lines for fatigue then SS lines.

The first time I warmed that set up to a good operating temperature and stepped on it I threw myself against my seatbelt. It had more than enough quick, accurate, and predictable braking power, and the tires were the only thing keeping it from slowing down further.

Of note, I changed my brake fluid using a power bleeder and did PR in the rain 2 months ago. With almost no additional miles on the car I went out to PR again (last Friday) in the dry. By the end of the day my brakes were seriously hurting. I had to press hard to get them to work at even 80%, and couldn't get them to lock up (at least while heel-toeing) but it wasn't brake fade due to heat because cooling them off and taking it easy didn't help. I didn't think it could be my fluid since it had only been in the car for 2 months and only through one rainy track day. I feared it was my MC. I flushed the fluid again with my pressure bleeder and they started acting much better, despite a lack anything but clean fluid coming out. *shrug*. They performed well enough at ORP on Monday that I didn't even think about them.

Even if you think your fluid is good, you might give it another flush and see if there is any change. It's certainly cheaper than replacing the brake MC!

[Chuck C]

Stainless lines FTW on a track car.

[Wh33lhop]

HPS+ pads

wut

[Earendil]

wut

HP+ (HP Plus). Not sure how the 'S' got in there.

[SGT4677]

When I redid my brake system I just rebuilt the calipers, used blank rotors, HPS+ pads, and ATE super blue. I ended up with reputable stainless steel brake lines from bimmer world, but I'd go OEM if I did it again. For starters, it's easier to inspect OEM lines for fatigue then SS lines.

The first time I warmed that set up to a good operating temperature and stepped on it I threw myself against my seatbelt. It had more than enough quick, accurate, and predictable braking power, and the tires were the only thing keeping it from slowing down further.

Of note, I changed my brake fluid using a power bleeder and did PR in the rain 2 months ago. With almost no additional miles on the car I went out to PR again (last Friday) in the dry. By the end of the day my brakes were seriously hurting. I had to press hard to get them to work at even 80%, and couldn't get them to lock up (at least while heel-toeing) but it wasn't brake fade due to heat because cooling them off and taking it easy didn't help. I didn't think it could be my fluid since it had only been in the car for 2 months and only through one rainy track day. I feared it was my MC. I flushed the fluid again with my pressure bleeder and they started acting much better, despite a lack anything but clean fluid coming out. *shrug*. They performed well enough at ORP on Monday that I didn't even think about them.

Even if you think your fluid is good, you might give it another flush and see if there is any change. It's certainly cheaper than replacing the brake MC!

I had the same thing at PR that day, the race car was soft all day even though it has fresh fluid and so was the rat when I drove it last session. I didn't bleed the rat after the wet day and have been driving it every day. Lesson learned, even though you don't drive it hard or at all, High temp fluid absorbs water quickly, especially in our area.

I run HP+ pads, SS lines from BMA parts and ATE super blue or type 200 on the street car, no cooling ducts. I get my fluid mostly from Baxter's (Action) here in Everett,Ed will get it the same day if you call him and ask. It's pretty much the same price as online when you add shipping. The car will fade if your really pushing it into 2 and 3A but we have doubled up in it also with no issues. I am also using speed bleeders on the calipers, they work great.

[roguetoaster]

I'm planning on hitting the track a bunch this year, after being away for two years now--my 318iS needs a bit of work so I'm looking for suggestions.

I have pads (PF06's) and rotors with lots of life left so that is not a concern. Front brake shields have been removed too.

I want new/rebuilt brakes and I have girling calipers.

- Rebuild brakes with stainless steel pistons from bimmerworld? Worth the money?

- New brake lines - Stainless or OEM?

- Fluid recommendations? I've been using ATE blue but I'm open to suggestions.

Also, how do you determine if you should replace or upgrade/replace your master cylinder and brake booster? I recently picked up a really nice e30 325iS and the brake pedal feels so much better--the travel is much shorter and firmer but I don't think it's due to the brake fluid needing a change in the 318iS.

Thanks!

As far as calipers it seems that Girlings are better for endurance work as the pads are faster to change if needed, but ATEs do feel better with the brass guide setup and might (allegedly) wear pads more evenly. Both are easy to rebuild and I wouldn't spend the bucks for MFR rebuilds.

For pads everyone on the Chump team seems to agree PFCs are the way to go, and the compound is simply down to expected time on track. Also, running a mixed set F/R of 06s and 08s worked out well for us.

Brake fluid is rather the mystery item, ATE or Motul or whatever you like works well. The key is to flush constantly.

As for lines, new stock are less expensive and work fine.

[porschelou]

Years of Lemons/Chump time on our 86. I rebuild the calipers every two races and have been using Bimmerworlds SS pistons - they are great. We use the brass guide pins and SS lines.

Have tried almost every type of pad. Had issues with Hawk HT-10's lasting greater then 9hrs. Had one of the first sets of PFC 08's of the manufacturing line and won't use anything else. I can race 24hrs without changing them - proof was last year at VIR. We do have full ducting to keep them cool ( all ebrake / dust shields removed from the rear). Had some issue over heating the pads early on ( running short courses with lots of braking and no long stretches to cool them down).

ATE blue - flushed before every race. Stock master.. We can out brake just about any car out there.

It did take a few years to get the brakes dialed in. Now we don't think about them - just dive bomb the corners :) The car does have a M30 so we can generate a little more top end speed. Raced at Watkins in April and was hitting 130 after the S's..