Track day at VIR

[matthugie]

Here's some video from one of my sessions at VIR last weekend. I welcome any feedback, though I know I never hit corner 3 properly and could definitely brake later on the back straight. However, since it isn't timed and I had previously overcooked it coming down one of the straights I was taking it easy towards the end of the straights both with throttle and braking points.

[agent]

That looks like a riot Matt. I can't wait to put one of the E30s on that track.

[matthugie]

That looks like a riot Matt. I can't wait to put one of the E30s on that track.

It was an absolute blast, and THSCC is a great group to run with. I'd run with them if you can, and hopefully I'll be out there as well. And thanks again for the help with the seat.

[JCarp90]

I want to run on VIR one day.

What is your trans/diff/suspension/tire setup?

[matthugie]

I want to run on VIR one day.

What is your trans/diff/suspension/tire setup?

Drivetrain: AA Ltw flywheel with G260, s3.73
Suspension: IE3 springs, billie sports, e90 drop hats, kmac camber plates, urethane bushings all around
Wheels/tires: Apex Arc-8's with square 235/40/17 ZII's

[gverelli]

Nice, love the helmet by the way I have the same one:-D

[matthugie]

Nice, love the helmet by the way I have the same one:-D

Thanks man. I'm probably one of the only people who actually uses theirs, but if you have it you might as well use it.

[ak-]

Nice driving! Brakes?

[matthugie]

Nice driving! Brakes?

Thanks! And to answer your question, UUC's BBK up front, Hawk DTC-30's for pads. I don't remember the rear pads off hand, but are otherwise stock.

[jlevie]

Compared to being in the car instructing I always find it a bit difficult to dissect a lap from video. But I have a few comments. You are coming off the throttle and braking way too soon for T1. In my Spec E30 I brake at about the 150ft mark and carry light trail braking into the corner, picking up full throttle at the apex. Getting T3 right means giving up just a little in T2 in order to get a good entry into T3, which is the more important corner. It looked like you were turning into T3 a bit late, which doesn't help. I couldn't tell about the entry speed, but if you start in too fast you can't get to full throttle at the apex and tend to slide off track. In a like manner it looked like you might be carrying a bit too much speed into Oak Tree, the entry is slower than it seems it should be. A slower entry allows full throttle to be picked up earlier which yields better time on the straight. It is hard to judge from the video but it looked like there were places where you should but didn't use all the track.

Over all, pretty good, but there is definitely more speed to be had. I got lap times in the low 2:30's off the video. That would be quite respectable for an M20 powered e30 (I've run 2:23's in my Spec E30), but I'd expect your 80'ish HP advantage to take a bunch off that.

[matthugie]

Compared to being in the car instructing I always find it a bit difficult to dissect a lap from video. But I have a few comments. You are coming off the throttle and braking way too soon for T1. In my Spec E30 I brake at about the 150ft mark and carry light trail braking into the corner, picking up full throttle at the apex. Getting T3 right means giving up just a little in T2 in order to get a good entry into T3, which is the more important corner. It looked like you were turning into T3 a bit late, which doesn't help. I couldn't tell about the entry speed, but if you start in too fast you can't get to full throttle at the apex and tend to slide off track. In a like manner it looked like you might be carrying a bit too much speed into Oak Tree, the entry is slower than it seems it should be. A slower entry allows full throttle to be picked up earlier which yields better time on the straight. It is hard to judge from the video but it looked like there were places where you should but didn't use all the track.

Over all, pretty good, but there is definitely more speed to be had. I got lap times in the low 2:30's off the video. That would be quite respectable for an M20 powered e30 (I've run 2:23's in my Spec E30), but I'd expect your 80'ish HP advantage to take a bunch off that.

Thanks Jim! I'd like to start by saying that I need to improve my braking in general, that's one area I wasn't very happy with all weekend. For T1 I had issues balancing braking point and tire temps. When I braked later (and harder) the front tires were overheating, causing me to understeer through T6. I'm guessing better pedal modulation would solve that problem, and I was working on it but not pushing braking points. I had also almost gone off there braking too late on day 1, so I was a bit leery of a late braking point.

For T3 I was definitely late, and that was overcompensation for turning in early all weekend. I had a hard time with the lack of visual cues for turn in and not looking ahead. I was told to take T2 midtrack, line the car up with the flag station (or light pole), and turn in when I got to the edge of the track. I was getting too focused on where the edge of the track was and not looking at the upcoming corner. I did the parade laps at lunch to practice line and looking ahead, but relapsed when back at speed.

Oak Tree is somewhere I was having consistency issues. Most of the time I did it pretty well, but towards the end started turning in a little early. As for the entry speed, I actually felt pretty good about that. I wasn't pushing traction limits front or rear on entry or exit, though I do agree I could be on throttle sooner.

There are definitely places that I could have used more track, and that's an experience thing. Not that I didn't know to use it, but a lack of comfort and confidence to use it. I autox fairly often, but I'm not used to pushing the limits of the car at those speeds. I also drove my car there and needed to drive it back, so I played it safe in places like Southbend and Hogpen and left some extra track in case I came in too hot. The time I got when editing the video was ~2:24, and I just put the video on stopwatch to confirm (thought I might have misremembered/mistyped). Given the times you threw out I'm very happy with that. Thanks!

[jlevie]

Thanks Jim! I'd like to start by saying that I need to improve my braking in general, that's one area I wasn't very happy with all weekend. For T1 I had issues balancing braking point and tire temps. When I braked later (and harder) the front tires were overheating, causing me to understeer through T6. I'm guessing better pedal modulation would solve that problem, and I was working on it but not pushing braking points. I had also almost gone off there braking too late on day 1, so I was a bit leery of a late braking point.

You probably have too much front weight bias and too little rear brake bias, which is a common E30 complaint. But a bigger problem is that you aren't on race tires (Hoosiers or Toyo RR's for example). You also need to be using race pads on track and have cooling ducts for the front brakes.

For T3 I was definitely late, and that was overcompensation for turning in early all weekend. I had a hard time with the lack of visual cues for turn in and not looking ahead. I was told to take T2 midtrack, line the car up with the flag station (or light pole), and turn in when I got to the edge of the track. I was getting too focused on where the edge of the track was and not looking at the upcoming corner. I did the parade laps at lunch to practice line and looking ahead, but relapsed when back at speed.

Turning in late is always better than early. The problem with T3 is usually caused by focusing too much on T2. As you approach T2 you really need to be thinking more about T3. I never look at the track edges there and am looking at T3 as I go through T2. When the "sight picture" looks right you do what it call for.

Oak Tree is somewhere I was having consistency issues. Most of the time I did it pretty well, but towards the end started turning in a little early. As for the entry speed, I actually felt pretty good about that. I wasn't pushing traction limits front or rear on entry or exit, though I do agree I could be on throttle sooner.

As I said, Oak Tree needs a slower entry speed than it seems. We have the same driveline ratios (a Getrag 260 & 3.373 diff), though you have more engine power. My shift point into 4th is just before the stack of tires on the left during track out and yours is well after, which means I'm takeing more speed onto the start of the straight. A slower entry and earlier full throttle is difference. With your power you should be able to do even better.

There are definitely places that I could have used more track, and that's an experience thing. Not that I didn't know to use it, but a lack of comfort and confidence to use it.

You always want of use all of the track, even if you don't need it, so that "sight picture" becomes fixed in your brain.

[matthugie]

You probably have too much front weight bias and too little rear brake bias, which is a common E30 complaint. But a bigger problem is that you aren't on race tires (Hoosiers or Toyo RR's for example). You also need to be using race pads on track and have cooling ducts for the front brakes.

Yeah, I haven't graduated to race tires yet, was planning on doing that next year. I don't remember what pads I have on the rear, but they probably aren't aggressive enough. The DTC-30's on the front are a track/autox compound and did pretty well. I have some more aggressive pads around, but they're way too much for street tires. I definitely do need to look into ducting.

Turning in late is always better than early. The problem with T3 is usually caused by focusing too much on T2. As you approach T2 you really need to be thinking more about T3. I never look at the track edges there and am looking at T3 as I go through T2. When the "sight picture" looks right you do what it call for.

I was actually completely ignoring T2, but wasn't looking at T3 when I should have been. My instructed point of reference was to the off the right side of the track going into a left-hand turn and I was fixating on that rather than just lining up with it then looking into T3. It was frustrating knowing it, but having a mental block on doing what I was supposed to.

As I said, Oak Tree needs a slower entry speed than it seems. We have the same driveline ratios (a Getrag 260 & 3.373 diff), though you have more engine power. My shift point into 4th is just before the stack of tires on the left during track out and yours is well after, which means I'm takeing more speed onto the start of the straight. A slower entry and earlier full throttle is difference. With your power you should be able to do even better.

Ah, I see. Well, next time I'm there I'll take that into consideration.

You always want of use all of the track, even if you don't need it, so that "sight picture" becomes fixed in your brain.

That's a good point, hadn't thought of it that way. I'll remember that next time, and it'll be easier as I get more comfortable I'm sure. Thanks for all your feedback, it's exactly what I was hoping to get.

[JCarp90]

Drivetrain: AA Ltw flywheel with G260, s3.73
Suspension: IE3 springs, billie sports, e90 drop hats, kmac camber plates, urethane bushings all around
Wheels/tires: Apex Arc-8's with square 235/40/17 ZII's

Very cool. That track looks like a lot of fun.

[ed94r]

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