Autocross/spirited street brake pad suggestions please

[Sh3rpak!ng]

I just finished a brake system overhaul with wilwood 4 piston calipers and brembo vw corrado rotors in the front (wilwood BP-20 pads), and oem caliper and disc (and stoptech street performance pads) in the rear. I also converted to manual brakes via massive's booster delete kit utilizing a 20mm/20mm MC. I also have a prop valve plumbed to the rear currently set full open.

Primary function of the car is autocross and spirited canyon carving plus a random commute to work when I get too bored/tired of my daily.

Eventually I intend to do some track events but I'll dedicate pads to that when the time comes.


I read a bunch of threads and was quickly overwhelmed by all the options. One that seemed to stand out as a good aggressive street and autocross pad is the Porterfield R4S. Thoughts?

Any other pads that stand out as a good option for my purposes?

[iwantspeed]

Performance friction brakes
Pfc 08's if it's available for you brake setup.

[kronus]

PFC 08s are great pads, but they're enduro pads and need some heat in them before they work really well. There are probably pads that will work better for autox.

[BlackbirdM3]

Look into some KFP Gold pads. You might also see if Cool Carbon makes anything. I run the KFP pads on my track car, the Cool Carbons on the M3.

Will

[Luke_M]

I have almost the exact same setup and the challenge is that not everyone makes a pad for a wilwood setup that matches a oem e30 rear. For instance, I can't find a PFC08 for a wilwood, shape 6712. (Maybe I missed it?) So your options are limited.

Hawk does have some DTC60, 70 and 30 options that can match well but I have no experience with those particular ones or any theoretical matching sets.

I have read that Carbotech will make any of their pads for any caliper so contacting them might be a good way to go. They have a line of pads from pure street to a variety of race pads: http://carbotechperformance.com/brake-compounds2.asp However, I have no experience so I can't comment on their pads. It's merely one of the few solutions that I've found where you can stick with one manufacturer for your mismatched calipers.

[Bimmerman325i]

If you aren't going to track it with them, Hawk HP+ (not HPS) are pretty good autocross pads. They are also insanely squeaky and dusty.

What makes you sure the BP-20 pad from Wilwood is insufficient though? Massive Lee once posted a chart of Wilwood's various brake compounds, and some were very similar to Hawk/PFC/etc brand compounds.

PFC Z-rated is also an option. Carbotech, Porterfield.....there are lots of manufacturers of sporty brake pads. You probably don't want a dedicated track pad though.

[Bimmerman325i]

I have almost the exact same setup and the challenge is that not everyone makes a pad for a wilwood setup that matches a oem e30 rear. For instance, I can't find a PFC08 for a wilwood, shape 6712. (Maybe I missed it?) So your options are limited.

Hawk does have some DTC60, 70 and 30 options that can match well but I have no experience with those particular ones or any theoretical matching sets.

I have read that Carbotech will make any of their pads for any caliper so contacting them might be a good way to go. They have a line of pads from pure street to a variety of race pads: http://carbotechperformance.com/brake-compounds2.asp However, I have no experience so I can't comment on their pads. It's merely one of the few solutions that I've found where you can stick with one manufacturer for your mismatched calipers.

DTC 30s are an evolution of HP+, according to le intarnetz. I haven't used these.

DTC 60 are an evolution of the HT-10, and actually don't suck as a DD pad. I run these most of the time now, especially when I'm too lazy to swap out the pad.

DTC 70 are hyper aggressive. They lock up street tires way too easily due to their bite, and require a lot of temperature to switch on. I ran these for a while and they were too much for the car and tires on track, let alone street. Save those for when you've got purple crack tires and are hauling ass on track.

This is my favorite graph for brake discussions. You have temperature vs friction coefficient. Note the track pads don't switch on until there is lots of heat-- not ideal on the street. Aim for something that has high friction with little heat needed.

[e30_302]

You'll probably want more rear brake than what you've got. I think I read somewhere that Mike Skeen uses a DTC 60/70 front/rear combo. I'm getting ready to test a Raybestos ST 43/45 combo, UUC front kit stock rear.

[Sh3rpak!ng]

Thanks guys for all the suggestions and info. I'm not sure one way or another whether the bp-20s are right, but I think I'd rather match front/rear or if anything increase the rear a bit to balance the brakes better.

Looking at that graph, HP+ seems nice. What about dtc-30? Could I get away with ht10 on the street?

What kind of temps are normal on the street/spirited canyon driving/autox? Im also not sure what kind of temp ranges I should be looking at, or say for the street how quickly things get hot, and typically to what temp?

For example HP+ vs HT10, ht10 doesnt produce the same friction that the hp+ does at 100 degrees until it hits 400 degrees... would I be able to even take full/partial advantage of the ht10s on the street at all to make them a better option than hp+?

I could be totally overthinking this and be thinking it way safer than I need to be. I'm just new to manual brakes, and I've never played with different pads, let alone anything close to a more performance/race pad.

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[Sh3rpak!ng]

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[Sh3rpak!ng]

So BP-20 ranges from a .36 to .53 which is still a bit lower than I thought. I'm really liking the look of the dtc-30. I will try to find graphs for other compounds.

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[matthugie]

Personally I love the DTC-30's. I ran them on my S52 E30 with a UUC BBK and currently have them on my E36 M3. They really work best when you have a bit of heat in them, but they have enough initial bite to lock up 255 width RE71-R's on an autox course.

[Sh3rpak!ng]

Personally I love the DTC-30's. I ran them on my S52 E30 with a UUC BBK and currently have them on my E36 M3. They really work best when you have a bit of heat in them, but they have enough initial bite to lock up 255 width RE71-R's on an autox course.

Thanks for the feedback. Currently leaning towards the DTC-30s.

Also here is a graph of some porterfield compounds

[Sh3rpak!ng]

So it doesn't look like dtc-30s are available for the oem rear caliper. I'm thinking perhaps the ht-10s would be okay for the rear? When they heat up it looks like they have a bit more grip than the dtc-30s which would probably be even better at the autox.

Or maybe the blue 42 would be ok for the rear? looks like they have better cold bite and relatively match the temp range of the dtc-30

EDIT: looks like they also refer to the dtc-30 as "street race"

Still wondering if the blue pads might be better for the rear with a little more grip

[matthugie]

The "street race" pad is the same compound as the DTC-30 with a slightly different design supposedly to reduce noise. Honestly I haven't noticed a difference, they're still loud as hell.

As for pad selection, you're not going to get any race pads up to temp on an autox course, front or rear. I went with the DTC-30 because I do both autox and track days, and with those I can get away with not having a set of pads for each. They dust like hell and squeal like a stuck pig when cold (read: any normal street driving). Unless the canyons you're carving have some steep and continuous downhill sections they'll be overkill and never really getting up to optimum temp.

For your purposes, the HP+ is probably the best choice. If you want the rears to bite first then you can stagger DTC-30's in the front and HP+ in the rear without issue, though after 1-2 hard brake applications the fronts will probably have more bite.