trackable street car?

[trent]

I am a total track newb, and I am not afraid to admit it.

You don't need to build that ballsy of a car, you will have a hell of a time setting it up with all that adjustabilty. Build a spece30 car, then when you get tired you can sell it. you will have a hell of a good time. Build a car for a class, don't build a car for a class that doesn't exist, or you will get stuck with insane cars and get whipped.

[Charlie]

Nope - streetable track car for me.

I am doing the following:

GC Coil over kit with the camber adjusters.
Koni Adjustable shocks.
Front and rear strut braces (not sure what brand yet)
tree house racing cab's.
new control arms and tie rods because - well I need them anyway.
eibach front and rear anti roll bars.

Good start. The GC kit can be perfectly streetable depending on what rates you go with. If you're tuning this more for a "track" setup rather than a rollerskate autox package, you probably won't kill yourself on the street. Is this a "driven on the street sometimes" or an actual DD car? If it's DD usage, the standard Bilstein Sport/H&R sport combo is still nice. I ran it for years, never bottomed out, never killed the oil pan, and never had to cringe over potholes. It still performed nice on track with sanely sized tires. Running 225+ width would have probably showed more weaknesses with the setup, but it did fine for HPDE usage.

M3 (e30) front stut housings and all the fixings.
Rear M3 e30 trailing arms.
M3 CSL wheels.
CF hood - not sure what kind.

You're starting to get into serious money here, and I'm not quite sure what your goal is. Are you actually going to competitively drive this car? If so, going 5 lug parts and such is going to bump you out of a lot of classes, or run you way up in pts. This is definetly counterproductive with a stock motored e30. The CF hood looks cool, but isn't cheap and really doesn't knock off a ton of weight. It's pretty much a "bling" mod and not really gonna do you much on regular track days.

Roll Bar - not sure what kind.
Massive Brakes.
Exhaust not sure why kind...

Again, what are the real goals here? Roll bar on a mostly street driven car gives me second thoughts. Not saying don't do it, but you have turned your car into a 2800 lb miata with a roof at this point. Massive brakes are silly on a stock motored e30, not to mention expensive. What tracks are you looking to run at? Save for the Glen, there's not much in the NE that's really braking-intensive.

-Charlie

[rwh11385]

I am really learning about the car (I know the car on the street) and I want to be able to have all the settings I can, to really tweak the car into the car I need/want. I am a total track newb, and I am not afraid to admit it. This group as said (above) is a great group to be involved with. I am happy to get some real good guidance.

How is changing the settings on the car gonna help you learn how to drive it. Most people just make the settings and leave them anyway. I never changed the height on my old C/O's after the first month. If you need to change the balance of your car with conventional springs, there is swaybar tuning for that!

Worry more about things that will help you continue to track and have a good time, not things that you think will improve your time or make it more fun. Sure, a turbo you may think will make drifting or tracking way more fun, but if an old rotten heater hose blows your day will be over either way. Replace the old worn pieces and do amazing maintenaince and all of your time allowed will be on track instead of repairing your car in the pits/lot, even if you have uber trick parts on it.

Forget 5-lug, huge wheels with expensive tires and expensive to replace, or carbon fiber anything. CF will just put the spotlight on you and show you have spent more on fuh raze items than driving experience and skill.

Focus on tires (autocross-street ones) and brakes, and repeat - preventative repairs.

You'll look like a real asshole if you have a CF hood and bling wheels and keep spinning out, but will have a royal smile on your face if you car is up to hours of track abuse and you learn a lot while having fun even if the car is almost stock.

Your call on suspension. You could even buy Konis and H&R Race's, then swap the Race's for GC's if you want to go that route, or buy B-Sports if SpecE30 racing calls you. The market is pretty damn liquid it seems.




But please, make sure your car isn't going to break down. And your tires aren't dead by the end of your sessions or brakes gone. They absolutely ruin your day and is even worse if you spent $ on modding and now can't do anything. You paid for the auto-x, drift, or track event, you might as well get the full value!

[Dave]

Dont go to the track with 50% brake pads. Some Tech inspectors will fail you.

[JRKOUPE]

track car......

track car?...........

that means so many things to so many people. 155 has great thoughts.....and alot of tothers that chimed in are right on as well. If you want the ultimate track toy then c/o's are fun, 5 lug. cf etc...........but u dont need them at all!!!!!!!!! Decide what u want and your budget......then go for it...........I run the spec springs set up but w/ konis.......and stock bars....all poly and neg 3 camber up frt.................seats, harnesses, rb.....single xhaust and chip......its a great street legal track toy.............its not very blingy.....but I can hang w/ most. I run w/ scda as well.....

[CarsSuck]

As a person in a similar position, that of having no on track experience but lots of irresponsible speeding on windy byways and making farmers shit their overalls as i pass their tractor going 90, I would say just stick to basic springs and shock upgrades. I have H&R sports and blisteins and the car is capable of way more speed than I can provide.

[VAPORBLADE]

Man - you all have given me much to think about. I am probably not going to be running in spec e30, but will run fun at scda.

My goal is to make a really nice car, that can preform. It is not a DD, nor will it ever be. Maybe a friday car and track car. I want it to run well, corner well, and look good. :) At the same time, I want to learn more and more about track driving.

[CarsSuck]

well, my car is a DD. Were it not, things would be different.

I say do the coilovers. It gives you some flexibility and performance potential. I wish I had. Replacing all the bushings is a great idea, just make sure to give lots of consideration to the materials.

The one point where i really disagree is on the wheels. five lug or not 19" wheels will probably hurt performance. 15 or 16 would be best.

[e30sd]

fitting 19's on a non-m would be a bitch. besides, 225/19's would suck. 15/16 would be perfect.

[ddavidv]

I built a Spec E30 car, and it is still street legal.
My prior car was an '86 Audi GT that I spent waaayy too much money on trying to make it a compromise car (street/track) that wound up being good at neither.
My comments are to help you, not offend you, so please take them that way.
You aren't ready for coil overs. You don't have a set of corner scales, and know zero about setting up a car. Yes, I know, you can learn. But my opinion is you'll never really realize the benefits from them, will piss a lot of money away buying them, and would be just as happy with a SE30 suspension anyway.
My car sits nice and low. I wouldn't want it any lower, simply because of ground clearance issues. It's very neutral handling and easy to drive, even in the rain. You can build your car with this setup and then, if you decide later "Those morons on R3V were wrong" and want to get coil overs, you'll have NO trouble selling the H&R's to a Spec E30 builder.
Beyond that, don't waste money on big brakes. You don't need them. Proper pads will solve any braking problem you may find you have. Sounds too easy, I know, but when you run a set of track pads in that environment you will be stunned how well your car can stop.
5 lug may open up some wheel selections for you but 4x100 wheels are cheap.
Roll bar: I wouldn't get ahead of myself with that. You really should do rollover protection in concert with a proper race seat and harnesses. I'd worry about that when you've done a half dozen track events and are getting fast enough to really hit the tire wall hard. :p
Trust me on this last point: spend the money going to driving events, not on your car. Just this past weekend I unofficially 'raced' a guy in my HPDE session with a bone stock E30, and we were nearly dead even. He was actually a bit quicker than I.
Reason: he was a much better driver. The equipment didn't hold him back. Nothing makes you smile more than out-driving something with more potential than what you have simply because you paid attention to your instructors.

[Massive Lee]

Hi JD.

Let's assume that you want to do HPDE's (not racing) but still want to drive the car to work and not be bothered by the track-personality of your car. It is very well possible. You must first eliminate the weak spots when you track a stock e30: soft suspension that allows too much body lean and wheel camber changes. H&R race sprins or Eibach Pro springs will do the job but they are a very soft compromise. You will like them for a year. No more. Turner's J Stock springs are excellent for racing, but a PITA when on the street. Way too stiff and too low. Contrary to what a few have expressed, GC coil-overs are the efficicient way to go. But on stock e30 struts, not M3. Get front rates with 425# and rear 650#. That set-up is not too stiff for the street, not too soft for the track. I run that on my e30 M3. I used to run Eibach's on my e30 H23 and found it great around town but too soft on track. And remember that the H23 is 350# lighter than the US model, which stiffened the suspension.

One irritant very weak spot in the e30 is the brakes. Girling calipers are the worst (look at them with a front wheel removed while a friend presses the brakes: the huge deflection explains why they are lousy. Ate calipers are a bit better, but still wimpy. The assumption that having more brake is not needed is pretty discussable. Excellent drivers can do with weak brakes as they better control their car. A beginner doesn't have that option. Sure, you can buy $180usd PF97 pads and $350usd air ducts and plates (BTW That is already half the price of a BBK, who ever you buy it from) but you will still remain with tiny rotors and soft calipers. And no modulation. Improving brakes modulation, thanks to stiff calipers, seems to have been erased from the list of suggestions.

Extra safety is never an option. Do you need a rollbar? Perhaps not. Can it save your life if the car rolls. Sure it could. And having a rollbar will allow you to safely run a 5 point harness.

With all respect to e30Spec formula. It is a great formula, but saying that you SHOULD build your car with it in focus, is not relevant. You want to have fun. Not comply to a race class to which you will not probably participate. Especially that you intend to still drive your car on the street on a daily basis.

As an instructor with BMWCCA, BMWCC, Audi and PCA, I don't ask my students what suspension they run in order to modify my teaching. I always ask them to understand what their car does, whatever the tires or suspension, and adapt. Teaching is about the driver, not the suspension. But if the student wants to modify things or car comportments, then it can be discussed. I would not teach a student differently wether they run Ireland, spec-e30 or Turner suspension. The car will tell you what it is capable of after a lap. No need to ask about the hardware underneath.

[trent]

about that when you've done a half dozen track events and are getting fast enough to really hit the tire wall hard. :p

I agree with your entire above statement, but this one section I will just slightly differ. Maybe tracks up there are slower, but even going easy at Willow Springs here in SoCal puts you at 120. More than enough speed to cause a problem.

[JRKOUPE]

opinions...

ddavid and massive both have excellent responses........altho a bit differing!


Just goes to show you how this hobby/passion has many ways to look at it........ nothing is really NEEDED...but safety should be your first concern....but it usually isnt among newbies....or even oldies........


............really good info on this thread......but varying...final decision is your obviously.............

[ddavidv]

I will respectfully disagree with about 50% of what Massive Lee recommends. Having progressed from bone stock car to just about ready to take the licensing exam, I'll stick with my recommendations. If you've got a bottomless trust fund and like spending money/modifying your car, there is no harm going the path he suggests. You will, indeed, wind up with a superior piece of equipment for the intended purpose. But it will cost you.

I've built a car the way I wanted, and then taken a bath on it when I decided I wanted to move further up the Pyramid Of Speed and found it wasn't legal to run in anything.

I've also run modified cars against bone stock cars that were driven by guys way more talented than I, and been OWNED. Skills/talent will trump equipment most every time.

[Massive Lee]

He, he, ddavidv, at least we also agree on 50%. You are right to mention that a skilled driver will make even a lawnmower faster around the track than an unexperienced driver with great machinery. But as much as I am against building monster machines, I would recommend a bone stock car perhaps only for the first few events (to get the feel), and then start addressing the several flaws a stock e30 will have when used at speeds and conditions it was not meant to drive on a long period.