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Med-case LSD rebuild

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    #16
    Ramp angles and static lock are two different things. Static lock dictates how much locking power the LSD unit has, such that with a 25% lock LSD, the clutchs allow 75% slippage, so essentially if the inside wheel is moving at 100mph, the outside wheel may only be turning 25. Not a very accurate explaination, but it gets the idea across. Thus, with a stock LSD, often you will still be able to have it kind of open up on occasions, depending on conditions. This is greatly affected if you have different types or brands of tires, bad alignment, etc... While the wheels stay locked together as they should, the inside wheel will be turning at a much higher rate of speed. So 25% of the power is going to the outside tire, and and 75% is going to the inside tire.

    Ramp angles are the way the clutch packs engage though the gearing. The OEM diff is very conservative, to save clutches and to promote the life of the differential. On motorsport diffs and ones that see frequent rebuilds, they are much more agressive. So in any case, when you accellerate out of a turn, one wheel will always have more grip then another, physics of roll and rubber, etc.. A factory LSD with conservative ramp angles will take perhaps a second before locking. On a 150rwhp car, this is not really an issue. You will doubtfully have enough power to spin a wheel exiting a turn at 80mph. This is also why under almost any circumstances, an open differential is fine for a stock car. On a higher HP car, or one with a ton of grip looking for the edge in accelleration, this second can mean a loss of time or an undue wear on tires. So they alter the way the clutch packs engage so that rather then it taking a second to engage, it takes maybe a millisecond. Combined with a higher static lock, this translates into much more grip leaving a turn, and in turn, means higher exit speeds.

    In drifting you experience something completely different. The goal is not to have more grip on exit, but more control when there is little grip. You may not care about the characteristics of your car at a track day, but when it comes time to doing a clutch kick at a D1 event, you want to know that your rear is going to be locked and stay locked. This is more of a static lock issue then a ramp angle issue as your applying enough power to lock the differential with ease. Why altering the ramp angles may be beneficial is when you choose to power-over instead of clutch kicking (aka, power sliding), you need 100% control. Many drifters in AE86's and 240's just weld the diffs so there is 100% lock at all times. This will snap if the wheel aren't spinning (such as at a track), but will provide the most control in a drifting environment.

    I don't rebuild differentials very often, nor do I have the tools capable of doing many of things I suggest. I have rebuilt diffs before, but like most, just with replacement parts. When it comes to altering ramp angles, creating more static lock, etc..., its best to consult a professional. Its not a hard part to break if you do something wrong, but it can be annoying and tiresome to have to keep doing it over to get it right. There is a specific tool for altering ramp angles, and of course its expensive, so you pay for what you get. I have had an account with KAAZ because they make that job much easier by providing everything I want all ready to go (when I was in the Porsche arena).

    Wes

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      #17
      Wow, thanks for that information. Lengthy and informative! I'm gonna do some more homework, I probably will end up reshimming the diff for higher lock-up with my auto teacher.


      -Brandon

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        #18
        So, where can replacement bearings be purchased?


        Keep it slideways!!

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          #19
          I have yet to find a source for every part. My current LSD is only marginally better then my previous open (coming from Porsches though, I may just be optimistic...it may be 100% normal). I can find various parts, but pelican parts and SSF list the rebuild parts as NLA except clutches.

          BUT - in talking with KAAZ, they claim the same internal LSD from the later model E36 LSD's is identicle. In that case, all of the parts are available to rebuild the LSD's. I have not had the time to cross reference everything or take a look. I have both diffs, so I may do that this weekend.

          Wes

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            #20
            Originally posted by BrandC View Post
            Wow, thanks for that information. Lengthy and informative! I'm gonna do some more homework, I probably will end up reshimming the diff for higher lock-up with my auto teacher.
            Hopefully your shop teacher knows this, but the shims in a diff case don't effect the lockup, only the engagement between the gears and the preload on the bearings.

            If you want to change the lockup, you need to change the preload on the belleville washers in the clutch stack or add more clutches and leave the preload as it is.

            This is not DIY shit, guys. The chances of you not fucking it up are slim, no matter how much of a hotshot wrench you think you are. Adding clutch packs or changing the ramp angles requires machining the LSD housing. How do you know how much to machine off what part?

            The only way I hear about people changing ramp angles is with an EDM machine, and I don't know of a lot of places with those...

            Having a pro build me a diff and then install it in my housing myself is what I would do. Money well spent.

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              #21
              I agree 100% with above. Tacking an OEM rebuild is easy, but once you start adding thicker discs and machinging parts, you really need to let a pro take care of it. Its very straight forward as far as parts go, but there is way more involved with upgrading it. Thats why I prefer to go with an already build LSD like the KAAZ or spend a little more and get a Bimmerworld or Diffsonline diff.

              Wes

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                #22
                Originally posted by Axxe View Post
                So, where can replacement bearings be purchased?
                Any BMW dealership. They are not hard to come by at all, unlike LSD internal parts.
                Originally posted by whakiewes View Post
                I agree 100% with above. Tacking an OEM rebuild is easy, but once you start adding thicker discs and machinging parts, you really need to let a pro take care of it. Its very straight forward as far as parts go, but there is way more involved with upgrading it. Thats why I prefer to go with an already build LSD like the KAAZ or spend a little more and get a Bimmerworld or Diffsonline diff.

                Wes

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                  #23
                  PS: Redline NS gear oil. Look into it.

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                    #24
                    Originally posted by matt View Post
                    Hopefully your shop teacher knows this, but the shims in a diff case don't effect the lockup, only the engagement between the gears and the preload on the bearings.

                    If you want to change the lockup, you need to change the preload on the belleville washers in the clutch stack or add more clutches and leave the preload as it is.

                    This is not DIY shit, guys. The chances of you not fucking it up are slim, no matter how much of a hotshot wrench you think you are. Adding clutch packs or changing the ramp angles requires machining the LSD housing. How do you know how much to machine off what part?

                    The only way I hear about people changing ramp angles is with an EDM machine, and I don't know of a lot of places with those...

                    Having a pro build me a diff and then install it in my housing myself is what I would do. Money well spent.
                    Point taken. After reading a bit, it appears I didn't completely understand what ramp angles are. I thought you could keep things pretty simple by just getting different clutch plates and change lock-up percentage. It appears that I have a lot more HW to do.

                    So here's the new plan. Do a stock rebuild and simply replace the OEM parts with new OEM parts. Save some dough and get a real diff. built when I am NOT a noob lol.


                    -Brandon

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