Some Auto-x pics and review on E30S50's performance...

[NitroSpazzz]

Holy crap, that is nuts.

[DSP74]

I tend to forget that people could be using tires for competition and street driving.

I meant to monitor tire wear with your competition tires. From actual course time not street miles. Wider stickier tires are generally going to require more camber and more spring rate to maintain that camber.....Just keep that in mind.

[mazur]

IMO skip the price of the pyro and moniter tire wear.

I think the new race tires are relatively camber insensitive compared to the older designs. I think it's easier to have to much than to little (withen reason of course-if your stock class car has -1degree or less for example.)

When it comes to tire wear, my tires are even all the way across. It's wierd since these are my daily's. My friend seems to kill the insides of his tires with similar camber on his E36....but maybe his alignment is just bad


I'm happy to say I'm getting a nice used set of 225/50/14 RA-1's with lots of tread. Can't wait to see what these tires can do. This will be my first time ever driving on competition tires.

[DSP74]

IMO skip the price of the pyro and moniter tire wear.

I think the new race tires are relatively camber insensitive compared to the older designs. I think it's easier to have to much than to little (withen reason of course-if your stock class car has -1degree or less for example.)

[mazur]

To the OP - what are your tire temps looking like?? How is your alignment setup, particularly front camber and toe?

Tire temps unknown...gonna buy a pyrometer.

Camber in front- 3.8*
rear- 3.6*

Front toe- 1/16'' out.

[joshh]

I totally agree with you on the heat cycling issue. $15.00 a tire is good cash.

[DSP74]

Sorry should have clarified. Bob Tunnel of BimmerHaus




One person gets an idea and apparently has the talent to back it up (and he certainly does) and then through the wonderous world of the internet the info is spread to folks he take that info as the rule with no exeption.


Based on the fact that the 710 is also sold as a RR tire, there is no way that, that tire performs best at their advertised temperature range.

I've had a pyro for some time now. Once you are familier with a particular chassis, I find they aren't worth much. I've seen more than one entirely different type chassis display the same type behavior. Tire temps basically even across the tire through a range of almost 1 full degree of camber. This was on 710's and the Hoosier A5 (garbage).

Another marketing/internet fueled gimmick. Heat cycled tires. Several times I've seen heat cycled and non heat cycled tires last exactly the same amount of time. Grip levels also remained the same. Even having put a pair of heat cycled and non heat cycled tires on the same car at once........Debunked IMO. I'm also ripped for this one which is fine.....I'll save my money thank you.

[dinanm3atl]

If you can get heat into a 285 then that is the tire to use. If you can't then maybe you should think about a smaller size. There are operating temp ranges on these tires. Where they perform best and where they get "too hot". So maybe this Bob fellow was able to get the 285's up to temp and was good to go.

[DSP74]

My take on all the tire temp talk about smaller being better......Boils down to just how good Bob is in his M3. And when he was in ESP he said the car was as good as it could get (with a 3.0L and 245's). Of course when the car was bumped to BSP it got a built 3.2L and a set of 285's. Even after all that talk of the smaller tire being faster. I have all the respect in the world for Bob and his preperation on all of their cars is absolutely top notch. But I'm also calling a spade a spade.
Tell all the DSP guys who couldn't keep up on 245's and later switched to 285's that they 'should' be on smaller tires. Or how about the rally cars on 245's vs 285's.
My old S/P car was probably the lightest 4th gen F-body around, and with 315's and 335's it didn't have enough tire when it was anything above 65 degrees. Of course this was before the A6 came out and I was on the 710. Hell with one driver the car was noticeably faster at Grissom with the tires being sprayed in 75 degree weather.

If the current tires start taking as long as the old A3's then it 'could' become a valid point.

All FWIW and YMMV

[joshh]

No, I'm not arguing there. The cold slicks did infact run faster at Nationals. But I don't beleive they were running 225's as you are stating. I'm trying to point out the fact that the people looking at 300mm+ wide tires that wider isn't always better.

FYI - I believe ambient temps at Nationals this year were in the ~50*F range this year?? I very much agree with what a friend stated - had somebody showed up on a 7" wide Hoosier, they would've mopped up.

I think it's possible.

[dinanm3atl]

No Ken. You need to put the most camber and the most caster and extreme toe and the widest tires you can possible think of. Duh

Screw temps!

[kendogg]

Cold temperatures do put a damper on the Hoosier race tires but not so much for the 710's. They heat up quite fast and don't need to get as hot as the Hoosier. On a 70* day my first run gets them up to temperature (225 50 15's). If I don't cool them off before my second run they start getting greasy.
Even with a skinnier race tire you wont see much of a change in cold weather in autocrossing.
This is one reason why I asked why Nationals was held so late in the year.

But even a cold race tire is faster than a cold performance street tire. I know, no one said they were faster. Just stating the fact.

No, I'm not arguing there. The cold slicks did infact run faster at Nationals. But I don't beleive they were running 225's as you are stating. I'm trying to point out the fact that the people looking at 300mm+ wide tires that wider isn't always better.

FYI - I believe ambient temps at Nationals this year were in the ~50*F range this year?? I very much agree with what a friend stated - had somebody showed up on a 7" wide Hoosier, they would've mopped up.

[joshh]

Cold temperatures do put a damper on the Hoosier race tires but not so much for the 710's. They heat up quite fast and don't need to get as hot as the Hoosier. On a 70* day my first run gets them up to temperature (225 50 15's). If I don't cool them off before my second run they start getting greasy.
Even with a skinnier race tire you wont see much of a change in cold weather in autocrossing.
This is one reason why I asked why Nationals was held so late in the year.

But even a cold race tire is faster than a cold performance street tire. I know, no one said they were faster. Just stating the fact.

[kendogg]

Do you see national level guys switching to narrower tires when its cold out? Other then a wet rain tire I haven't seen it ever.

Right. And none of them could figure out why street tire cars were SO close to their times. It was because they were running massive tires, that even with tons of toe, couldn't get enough heat in them on a cold-ish day to get them into the temp range the tires needed to be in.

The part most people seem to not understand is that you need to be able to get these massive tires hot. I recommend a pyrometer to pretty much anybody before spending money on other stuff. Check and record your tire temps, see whats really going on. Look at your alignment, etc.

[rsafier]

Ask that to the people who wet to nationals last year when it was cold out.

To the OP - what are your tire temps looking like?? How is your alignment setup, particularly front camber and toe?

Do you see national level guys switching to narrower tires when its cold out? Other then a wet rain tire I haven't seen it ever.