TRM Bolt-in Roll Bar pictures

[techno550]

Not my car, or safety so go for it. I wouldn't feel comfortable with my belts being mounted that far back. That has no bearing on whether it is correct or not, but I wouldn't buy a roll bar designed like that.

I suppose you feel all of the FIA GT cars are unsafe?

[155///MPH]

Well that's fairly assumptive don't you think? Using that logic, if its the right way to go why don't all cars use the same method? DTM cars use short harnesses and WRC cars are being required to use shorter harnesses for 2008.

If you would take the time to understand what you quoted you would see that I didn't admonish the design as wrong or right. I simply stated that I would not be comfortable with that setup in my race car given the way that I understand the way harnesses work.

Also, most series in the US that I can think of require modifications of FIA legal cages in order to be legal to race with. All of this was irrelevant to the OP seeing as stated that he wouldn't be using a H&N restraint and wouldn't be using competition grade harnesses.

Go ahead and build it to meet FIA specs, just don't be surprised when it won't pass a lowly SCCA or NASA tech inspection.

[matt]

It WILL PASS a NASA tech inspection.

[BrandC]

I'd be interested in the roll-bar if it beats the competitors pricing (Kirk, Autopower). It'd be for DE's, not any heavy-duty racing.

[matt]

It will be more in line with the prices on the old TC Kline bars.

[1990m3]

that old TC Kline bar is one of the nicest I've ever seen for an e30. You should get your hands on one of those and copy it!

[matt]

LOL, no need. This one is just the way I like it in terms of fit. I would love to see some comparison pics though. I would guess they didn't do the B-pillar mounting plates the way we did, because it's a PITA. But it's the right way to do it.

[Charlie]

that old TC Kline bar is one of the nicest I've ever seen for an e30. You should get your hands on one of those and copy it!

McMahan still builds the "TC Kline" cages & bars out of his shop.

-Charlie

[Mike B.]

Who is McMahan?

[Scott///M]

Who is McMahan?

He's a cage builder up around Mid Ohio (not sure where). He builds some of the best cages I've seen.

If you live in that area? He's the guy to go to.

[Elephant]

I know this an old thread but it was referenced in another thread and I think it's worth commenting on.

First, we are factory trained by HMS/Schroth for proper harness installation/use. Second, I've been the BMW CCA CR National Tech Steward for the last 2 years and I've been involved in motorsports for nearly 10. I am extremely safety concious, I bought my HANS in 2002, way before many professional series were even requiring them, let alone amateur series. Safety very much matters to me and I take it very seriously, especially when inspecting vehicles.

So, to address a couple things here.....

1. If one is using either stock or competition seats with non competition belts, that mounting distance is perfectly fine. Certainly it is preferred to have a short a distance as possible.
2. Using Schroth belts with stock seats is fine, some belts are specifically made for certain vehicles. Schroth tests mfgr seats whenever they can to certify them for use with Schroth harnesses. It is impossible to test all seats, that should be obvious.
3. If a sub belt is not used there is only one competition harness that should be used in any scenario, the Profi ASM. No belt without ASM should ever be used if it does not have a sub belt, this is dangerous.
4. There is talk of spinal compression, this is not the issue at all. The issue with belts during a front impact is that without ASM or a sub belt the body can slip under the lap portion of the harness on the rebound. You can read about the ASM technology here:

Schoth Engineering

5. Discussions of cars passing tech.....if you fail a car for tech for improper installation make sure it is against the mfgr installation instructions. Using FIA rules or any other sanctioning body rules is not correct, those are general guidelines, mfgr instructions are specific to their product.
6. The Rallye products are not a compromise in safety, they are a compromise to purchasing additional safety gear, IE a HANS or other head/neck device. Schroth now makes "street" harnesses designed to be used with a HANS device. I would have no issues whatsoever using a Rallye belt if it fit my particular need. In my wife's E46 DD I will be installing the Schroth Quickfit Pro because I do prefer to wear my HANS device while instructing. This car does not have roll bar or anything and there is no safety concern here.
7. Porsche's and using harnesses....hopefully they are using seats WITHOUT the integrated headrest. If they are adding harnesses to those type of seats they are asking for injury. Using those loopy things to keep the shoulder straps in place is just plain silly. Next time you see someone with this set up wait til they are good an buckled in. Then push them laterally at their shoulder and see what happens.
8. All Schroth harnesses are polyester (and a proprietary design additionally), NOT nylon. Again, see the Schroth Engineering information.

So, all this being said, always follow the manufacturers recommended installation instructions. In some instances there may be conflicts with sanctioning body rules. If so, ask the sanctioning body for a clarification and cite the information you have.

This is all common sense really but there are a lot of internet myths out there that generalize things waaaaay too much.

Cheers.

[Elephant]

As stated, Mark McMahan is a fabricator in Akron, OH. He formerly did a lot of the work for TC....most of the cookie cutter stuff. He still does some stuff for him. I use McMahan exclusively for any fabrication work, the quality of workmanship is top notch. The price...man, tough to beat considering how good his work is.

If anyone ever needs work, call him, tell him I sent you. I get no kickbacks, just passing along the referral.

Cheers.

[dinanm3atl]

This was a very fun thread :)

[e30 gangsta]

So in the end. Is the bar better than a kirk or vsr bolt in?

[matt]

Depends on who you ask.