New SCCA SM happenings...........

[DSP74]

BTW after checking the results, I just can't see how you guys think the sky is falling out of SM.....Just look at the results. There are FWD Honda's not far off Daddio's AWD car. And one can be CERTAIN, that Daddio is wheelin' his car better than alot if not most in the class.....A former national champ Leiber was outgunned by FWD's even......The sky certainly isn't falling, and the E30 is certainly capable of winning.

[DSP74]

geez I guess I'll give up with you guys. But you aren't going to convince me that the rear suspension will offset being several hundred lbs lighter. Besides if the rear suspension was an absolute killer, then Tom Ellams old RX3 would have never dominated CSP, and the AE86 Toyaota wouldn't have been fast enough to move up a class. The Mazda a STRAIT axle with LEAF springs, and the Yota strait axle with multi link PHR/coils

Garrick that is a LONG way for me......I'd be more inclined to hit up cendiv events. But I did drive all the way over there a couple years ago to run my ESP car I had at the time. I was meeting a bunch of F-body guys, and aside from cone problems I ran OK.

[Jean]

I disagree. Even a US-spec S52 is a huge step in the right, if not misguided, direction. Throw on a small ball bearing turbo and powerwise you'd be good to go with near factory reliability (and *that* is super important).

That said, it think the harsh reality is that even an uber-E30 will never be able to keep up with properly sorted Evo.

+1. e36 has more chances at the national level but not an e30.

I am only wanting to prep my car up to the reginal level, national level prep is just out of my budget and e30 is not going to cut it.

[ed94r]

The rear is the limiting factor for the E30 chassis, aaaand there's nothing you can do about it.

It's just the basic architecture that you have to work with...the bones. You can't do much with the E30 "bones". The toe curves, the camber curves. If you have driven an E36, or even better an E46 then you know what I'm talking about. E30+bump=spin. E36+bump=was there reeeealy a bump there???

It may be OK in DSP as Alex and Tom and others have shown, but against the big buk SM crowd it really is a back-marker.

I would build an E30 for DSP before I build one for SM.

Ed

[E30 Racer]

I see your point about FI. I did not consider the multiplier...

Good luck with you SM project. You should drive down for an OVR event (Columbus, OH) some time. We have a pretty fierce DSP class comprised of five nationally competitive drivers, four of which drive E30s. The courses are decent, and would provide an excellent opportunity for you prove us all wrong. : )

[DSP74]

I'll certainly have to review the rear suspension as far as roll center locations, and camber curves as well as toe changes go, but I'm inclined to think that aluminum subframe bushings, diff bushing, and either the I/E toe and camber adjusters (if legal under S/T wording) or poly or delrin eccentric bushings, should be able to help alleviate much of the what is supposedly a horrid rear suspension.

NO?

[ed94r]

Jogging my memory...

I swear Terry's car was at 2500+ lbs...it was a non-roof car with all the legal weight removed. No radio, No AC, the right glass, the right carpet, Kirkey drag passenger seat, and nothing else. I'm also pretty sure he had the built 2.9L alloy block at Nationals.

Like I said. It was, and still would be the best-of-the best stuff.

I am hesitant to believe that you would be able to put those FI 300+rwhp to the ground. Especially on any sweeper with bumps or off-camber stuff. The E36 was proven to be a superior chassis for SM *even back then*, and the e36 is a has-been for SM.

I don't want to precipitate on the E30 SM parade, It would be a fun-assed car to run and maybe even impressive...but it aint no National SM threat. It so far off the SM radar it aint even funny.

Ed

[DSP74]

My point exactly.
Minimum weight for RWD is 1800lbs plus 200lbs per litre. F/I adds 1.4L to the equation.
200lbsX4.6L=2719.

[PiercedE30]

Damn, turbo S52 requires 2719? Shit, I'm at 2675 with full interior and a spare.

[DSP74]

A turbocharged S52 powered car needs to weigh 2719. The advantage to the E30 is going to be less weight. And 2719 negates that advantage entirely.
The US spec S engines simply can't produce enough N/A power. And since they weigh more, than an M20 and are a larger displacement, and require F/I to make the power needed they simply aren't the right choice.

Possibly a de-stroked version would be an option, but your still starting with a heavier engine......Adding a turbocharger is going to be heavy enough.

The same proposal's mentioned changing the displacement modifyer for AWD cars. Making them need to weigh 3100lbs. No way in hell I'd worry about an AWD car that weighed almost 800lbs more.

[E30 Racer]

FWIW the M/S50/52 is completely the wrong direction in an E30.

I disagree. Even a US-spec S52 is a huge step in the right, if not misguided, direction. Throw on a small ball bearing turbo and powerwise you'd be good to go with near factory reliability (and *that* is super important).

That said, it think the harsh reality is that even an uber-E30 will never be able to keep up with properly sorted Evo.

[DSP74]

Why ?

Because you are going to need 300-350hp to the rear wheels. And a N/A engine isn't going to get it done unless you are using either a euro engine, or S54.
And since you are going to have to go F/I you may as well skip the added weight of the swapped in engine. On top of keeping things WAY,WAY more simple in the engine compartment.

Now if I were building a drag car and needed much more HP than that, then yes I would swap out the M20 for either an M30 or M/S50/52

[Jean]

FWIW the M/S50/52 is completely the wrong direction in an E30.

Why ?

[ed94r]

The issue is that not much has changed for the E30 since then.

What was state of the art for the E30 in 2002ish (besides tires) hasn't been improved on. Shocks have improved, but those improvements get spread across the board and cannot be enjoyed only by the E30 chassis. Just about everything available for the E30 chassis now was available/bulidable then. If the top guys saw an opportunity to cherry pick a class with a ringer E30, it would have already been done.

18's or 275-15's are not going to change the game for the E30 in SM.

That's how I see it. I could be wrong...but that's how I see it.

Ed

[DSP74]

FWIW the M/S50/52 is completely the wrong direction in an E30.