SCCA Improved Touring S

[E-Thirty]

If anyone is experienced in this subject, I'd like to know if the 325i could actually be competitive in the ITS class. I noticed that the RX-7s usually dominate around here. The 240z and the Miatas look like they do pretty good as well. The main thing that sets me back with the e30 is weight min at 2750 lbs. So if anyone can say otherwise, please chime in.

[joshh]

Wish I could help you but I'm not as familiar with road racing rules and which cars are competitive.
Good luck.

[325is///M-tech]

I have some experience with E30's and ITS. The shop I work for ran a E30 325is in ITS (and currently still do as a second run group) in 2006 and took the Northwest ICSCC ITS championship. The Z cars have the power to hang with the E30's but they lack the brakes. The RX7 have the HP and the handling but are not able to get out of the low speed corners as well. Same withe the Miatia's. The E36 was the dominate car in ITS until SCCA slapped the intake plate in them to restrict them (in 2007) and they lost all HP from that. IMO the E30 is a very completive ITS car. Build a motor to full ITS spec and you are able to run Hoosiers so you can hang in pretty good.

[E-Thirty]

Thats good to hear. What about e-production though? If I want to go with ITS, I probably want to eventually build it up for a production class. To me it looks capable, the only thing that looks questioning to me is the valve lift limited to .400". Now is this gross or net valve lift? What cams would be ideal in this situation?

[325is///M-tech]

To build a true EP car is really expensive. One of the guys we race with has a true built EIP car and it has more money in it than the owners cars to admit. The problem with running EP is the prep level on the power plants. With what the RX-7 can do to the motors gives them a s load of power and they have a low minimum weight. E30 minimum weight is 2300# or so but there is not much more power in the motor over a spec ITS motor (only allowed a little more head work and a larger cam and a different engine management system) this results in like 25 to 30 more hp. The cars are capable of running great in EP but the cast to get it there is very high.

[E-Thirty]

As far as E production goes, I just don't see the e30 being a good candidate with it's limited head work allowed and high weight. I know some rotor heads that could really sneak some hp out of the 13b even with just a "street port" allowed and they're probably the most popular car in EP. The other two I've been noticing that seem to have consistent results are the prelude non-vtec with the h23 and the 240z or 260z. All of those make it really tough on the 325i to the point that I don't see a reason in competing with it, if I were heading for the national level. What I'd like to hear is someone who thinks otherwise.

[Serious Sam]

I'm new to the forum, and when I saw this thread it inspired me to join. I want to share with you my opinion. It is just that - my opinion, so please take it with a grain of salt. I have some experience racing an e30 in ITS, but am far from accomplished as a driver.

I do agree that the e30 will not make a good EP car, and I agree with M-Tech that its alot more money to step in the realm of EP (you need very deep pockets). I realize that you are requesting to hear from those who think the e30 may be a good EP car, but I will take the liberty to give my .02 worth on the competitiveness of the e30 in ITS.

I noticed that M-Tech is from the Northwest, and I agree that the e30 is a good car....in his region. It is not a competitive car in our region (I see that you are from Florida). Cindy Lux, who is now joining the ranks of the World Challenge GT series in a Viper, used to campaign an e30 in the Northwest Region, and I believe she won a few regional titles. Those tracks must favor the e30, but many of the tracks in the southeast simply do not. Any track with a long straight is NOT an e30 track - Sebring, Daytona, Road Atlanta, VIR.

I raced a '90 325i for a couple of years in 2000 and 2001, and I've been around SCCA racing since the early 90's. I was there when the SpeedSource guys were taking all the trophies in ITS with an RX7, as well as when they were finally overtaken again by the 240z's and later e36's (just before they took off for the Grand Am ranks). A friend of mine raced against them, and against some really fast RX7's and 240z's. I raced against the RX7, e36's and 240z's. I raced against them with a junkyard motor putting 153hp to the rear wheels, and a pro-built motor too. My e30 just could not hang with any of these cars in a straight line, or powering up the hills at Road A (there was a short time there between SpeedSource guys, and the e36's got their head of steam that my friend won the Pro-IT championship which came from good consistent finishes.)

If you race only at the shorter tracks - Moroso, Roebling, Kershaw, Barber, then I think the e30 can be competitive (top 3). To give you an example. I went to the SIC (Southeast Invitation Championship) and raced against a very fast e36, pole sitter. I was able to run consistent laps within 1 to 1.5 secs slower than the pole sitter (e36). A few weeks later at Road Atlanta for the ARRC, I was over 3 secs behind the same car, and this was at my home track. I just wasn't competitive even after improving my fastest time by over a second. My car ran a 1.43.8 at Road Atlanta that weekend. Pole was a low 1.40 by e36, if I remember correctly. Currently, the fastest RX7 runs 1.39's!! This RX7 was keeping up with an ITR Porsche 944s2 (200hp flywheel stock, and 2700'ish lbs) Even after a good neutering, the e36s are faster than the e30 at these tracks.

At Roebling Road, I watched a driver named Randy Pobst (you may have heard of him:D) outrun Sylvan Trembley in a SpeedSource Mazda in its heyday, but I don't think Randy would have done the same at Daytona, Sebring or Road Atlanta.

I dont believe its a handling thing (really its strength) or braking issue. I really think the e30 cant put out enough power even in race trim to compete on the straights. The e36's (before they were neutered) made 200'ish rwhp. Some say even more than 220. I think you'll find it extremely tough to get more than 170ish at the rear wheels with a well-built legal e30 motor. So the fast guys will have at least 20 -30hp on that motor.

I know this was a bit of a long explanation, but I hope this gives you some insight into what you can expect out of an e30 racing in the southeast.

BTW, you may already know this, but NASA has a spece30 class. This is a much better alternative than ITS racing a e30. Also, mylaps.com offers a way to check out the times that cars run at different regions. It helped me to determine that an e30 M3 doesn't stand a chance racing in ITR. In fact, the e30 M3 would be a proper match for the fast RX7's and un-neutered e36's in ITS.

[E-Thirty]

Thanks a lot for your insight! I think there are some tricks to get the m20 up there close to the 200 hp range (to the crank) and the e30 tuned a bit. I really think the e30 can be competitive in the ITS class, it just became some what of a lost cause when everyone started jumping on the rx7/240z band wagon. The south east division is a very competitive one and 1:39 from an ITS car is damn fast in RA! The only reason I would choose ITS over SpecE30 is just variety. Spec classes can be fun, but to me they are more for a ladder/feeder series.

[Serious Sam]

I wish you well. I really don't see a competitive e30 happening in the southeast - maybe I am unaware of these, as I have not kept up real close recently.

Sure would like to hear how you plan to get 200 rwhp out of your B&B m20!

[E-Thirty]

Well with ITS rules, I just don't see it being possible to the wheels. Maybe you're right though. I'd still like to get into it and eventually build a gt2 car. Alot of money, but seems like a fun class. Would like to see a s52 in an e30. :p