New spece30 legal camber plates... Ruff?

[DSP74]

Man this forum is pretty relaxed in requiring sponsorships to peddle products.

I mean shoot, it isn't like this is some guys building parts out of his garage. These are three companies peddling parts with only one of them a paid sponsor.....


Just an observation.

[DCColegrove]

To All:

... Forums should be used for resolving problems, and assisting customers with information and technical assistance, not to bash individual companies for personal gain or to vent frustration.

Sincerely,

Thomas E. Carr
336.931.0007
tcarr@carrindustries.com
www.carrindustries.com

And you really and truly adhere to this notion?

[wwwcarrindustriescom]

Ruff Technik vs Others? - An Owners Reply

To All:

I have been advised that Ruff products has been talked about in a negative way by other vendors in an attempt to raise the sales of their own product. CARR Industries was founded in 1985 serving the people with honest, reliable service with over 100 years combined experience with BMW cars. We became a Ruff Technik distributor to offer a performance line at a fair price. Ruff products are manufactured in Taiwan to save the consumer over half the price of other brands. We have in no way compared our prodcuts to any other vendor or choose to state that the Ruff product is an equivalent alternative in build quality. I do assure you that the Ruff product is a quality product for the price. If other vendors would like to defame the Carr Industries name or the Quality of the Ruff Technik name, I have no problem doing so legally outside of a forum and I am sure Ruff Technik would not having a problem either. If you have purchased a Ruff Technik product and are trully not satisfied with the value, please contact us at the shop. I would like to thank our customers for their continued support throughout the years. Forums should be used for resolving problems, and assisting customers with information and technical assistance, not to bash individual companies for personal gain or to vent frustration.

Sincerely,

Thomas E. Carr
336.931.0007
tcarr@carrindustries.com
www.carrindustries.com

[wwwcarrindustriescom]

Terry,

I can't argue the Ruff plates are better then the Vorshlags. Everyone in the BMW community (myself included) know that you sell some of the best products in the market, hands down.

The Ruff line has some really great stuff that we are bringing to the US market including rear shock mounts, tranny mounts, fuel pressure regulator kits, guage sending blocks, etc. Their quality is much better than your typical Chinese automotive product. They're also new to the market and are getting some bugs worked out in there products just as you might have when you started.

Also, It wasn't about taiwanese product being (typically) better or worse than chinese. The fact that you were spreading wrong information was most of my concern. From what I've noticed, taiwanese product typically do have better quality than chinese.


Thanks,
Brian
336.931.0007

[Fair!]

The picture comparring the 2 that was displayed by a competing vender is a little misleading. I wouldn't consider it "priceless".

I was just pointing out a picture that someone who bought the Ruff plates posted, which showed a stock upper strut mount next to the obviously taller stackup of the Ruff stuff. That's a... feature no other camber plate I've ever seen has had.

Also, the rep. from Vorshlag mentioed "chinese" in his description of the product. All of Ruff's products are from Taiwan...

I'm sorry but.... is there somehow a real quality distinction between the two?

If anything, this makes the product more cost effective for E30 guys that are usually on tight budgets (speaking for myself here also).

Well, you may be right on that statement -the Ruff parts are obviously cheaper to buy than making a unique design of your own, domestically. We, like 10,000 other shops, get the weekly barrage from Carr trying to get us to resell their parts, too - I know what they cost to buy from them. The feature comparison is pretty different, of course.

We've noticed that a number of E30 buyers don't care anything about features, quality, or performance - only price. We don't have anything we make manufactured in China or Taiwan nor do we don't make the cheapest parts out there, no question about it.

Question directed toward Vorshlag rep: Do your plates come with upper and lower bearing seals as the "chinese" Ruff plates? Just curious considering the price difference.

Wait wait wait... you are bragging on some rubber bearing seals? Those giant things don't even have real radial bearings! You are trying to imply that the "Taiwanese" Ruff parts have some great feature that makes them better than Vorshlag plates and perches? Seriously? You can't even buy them with the right top nuts and you are bragging on some meaningless feature...

I won't even comment further, as this is getting a bit too comical. :loco: Sorry if I let this stray off topic too far; I won't let this guy bait me into any more questions about our stuff, because this thread is supposed to be about Ruff. I honestly wish I could remove my posts and name from this entire thread. Yuck.

[wwwcarrindustriescom]

Wow, I missed a lot of bickering the past few days on this thread!

The only reason I originally posted here was to address a nut size problem the customer ran into, and to make the remaining members of the forum aware of the problem and when the solution would be ready. As it turned out, our shipment came with E36 nuts, and was easily solved.

Concerning the stack height of the Ruff mount, a lot of it is in the upper plate allowing countersunk allen heads for added camber adjustment (allen heads can go under strut housing). Also when you add the washer below the factory strut mount, the Ruff mount is barely taller(5mm at most). The picture comparring the 2 that was displayed by a competing vender is a little misleading. I wouldn't consider it "priceless".

Also, the rep. from Vorshlag mentioed "chinese" in his description of the product. All of Ruff's products are from Taiwan, which I mentioned earlier in this thread. If anything, this makes the product more cost effective for E30 guys that are usually on tight budgets (speaking for myself here also). Question directed toward Vorshlag rep: Do your plates come with upper and lower bearing seals as the "chinese" Ruff plates? Just curious considering the price difference.

If this is worth mentioning, I requested a R3V sponsor slot about a year ago with no reply, so we ended up sponsoring another E30 forum.

Thanks guys,
Brian

I think I might stop taping my afternoon Soaps :)

[155///MPH]

You didn't go look back at wwwcarrindustriescom posts did you? Because then you wouldn't have said that.

To clarify, I was speaking of this thread in particular.

[Brian D]

Ground Control has been a site sponsor since the first time I posted about GC products. I have another name that I used to use here, where I answered questions and NEVER once mentioned that I work at GC, let alone posted pictures of products and posted "sales"

I guess some people think thats ok, but I just think its tacky unless you are a sponsor.




Jay Morris

My apologies then, it is not immediately obvious that you are a sponsor (under your username).

[Hellabad]

Just for argument sake.... when would be a tactful time to show pictures of competitor camber plate stack height?? It can be construed as sniping in any scenario. Only reason I don't have too much of an issue with posting that picture is because this is a Ruff thread, not a Carr thread. If it was specifically a Carr thread it would be a different story.

One person showed a Ruff plate up against a stock upper perch, and another person reposted the pic.

Then GC posted a picture of a GC Spec e30 plate up against a stock upper perch because the thread is specifically about Spec e30 camber plates and this question was specifically asked in post #5 by the O.P.

Nobody posted one pic against a competitor pic in this thread that I could see.

So I think its all good.

There are some pretty egregious examples on R3V of "help posts" disguised as bash/ads with pics of camber plates attached if you go looking for them, but I think this one is OK.



Jay Morris

[Autobahn Sport]

Agreed, but this was neither the time nor place. Hell, I run GC on my car. I just disagree with the approach taken by these two in THIS thread. It just seems tactless to me.

Just for argument sake.... when would be a tactful time to show pictures of competitor camber plate stack height?? It can be construed as sniping in any scenario. Only reason I don't have too much of an issue with posting that picture is because this is a Ruff thread, not a Carr thread. If it was specifically a Carr thread it would be a different story.

[Hellabad]

Poor form from both GC and Vorschlag.

The only time Carr has posted was to help answer questions about the product. They didn't even start the thread.


JP

You didn't go look back at wwwcarrindustriescom posts did you? Because then you wouldn't have said that.


Nonetheless, I went back and deleted my post which was perceived by some to be insulting.

Different people have different standards for what they consider spam I guess.


check your PM



Jay Morris

1927

[Hellabad]

My question to all 3 vendors is why aren't you site sponsors? .

Ground Control has been a site sponsor since the first time I posted about GC products. I have another name that I used to use here, where I answered questions and NEVER once mentioned that I work at GC, let alone posted pictures of products and posted "sales"

I guess some people think thats ok, but I just think its tacky unless you are a sponsor.




Jay Morris

[Brian D]

My question to all 3 vendors is why aren't you site sponsors? Let's face it, you all use this forum to increase the visibility of your products. And Carr's username at least let's me know that they are a vendor, and read the comments with that in mind. I do appreciate the vendors (edit- that would be Vorshlag and GC -edit) that add tech to this place and not just advertisement.

2 of the best vendors on this site (not in this thread) have been very good about all of these points. They have consistently answered questions people have, whether it benefits their business or not. I have a lot of respect for these gentlemen, and will use their products. Stop attacking each other, and build some respect yourselves!

And so ends the sermon for the day.

[Aptyp]

Hey Carr industries
You know, every single post you ever have made on R3V is to sell something.
Even your username is a sales website. Most forums will ban you for that, let alone the spamming.

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/search.php?searchid=1985399

What is the difference between you and spam?
I'm just askin'........................

Hm, very good question. Tried doing investigative reports for CNN or NBS?

For one, i do get on Carr when they do something wrong and defend them when they do something right. I live a few blocks away from where they are, and I was there today to get my parts. I got on Brian last time when he posted under his name and Carr name on the same thread (in this thread too), and I still think it's sad. I always say what I think, and I already asked Brian why they're not sponsoring r3v, but I'm betting something is cooking up there.

As far as your question, Carr has done a whole lot for BMW circles, especially in the past 5 years. They are very stand up guys when it comes to their products, even when their products were from Ireland Engineering. Since IE flopped (quality wise), Carr became a vendor for Ruff. They sell quality service, even when sometimes you get unlucky with parts. Problem with Zen was that both Carr and Zen got parts made by Mason. Carr out prices a lot of companies out there. And last I checked it was a wonderful thing for all broke-ass e30 enthusiasts (like me).

Call them. Seriously, call them. With any question, if they have an answer they will help you. That's just the kinds of guys they are. They have helped so much, even when I worked for a company that directly competed with them. Not to mention, you'd be calling people who truly understand and love e30s. Carmine had a track 325 a while back, and Brian currently has 2 himself (one badass m20b28 is building). Half of the people in that building are driving e30's. They are a very big part of e30 community, a giant part of BMW community, and an impressive part of my community.

Like I said, never hesitate calling them and doing business with them. You're getting a lot more than you pay for every time.

-Art

[155///MPH]

Agreed, but this was neither the time nor place. Hell, I run GC on my car. I just disagree with the approach taken by these two in THIS thread. It just seems tactless to me.