good article on oils

[surgeoh]

http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticles/ID/3582/Its-All-About-the-Zinc--High-Stress-Wear-Resistance-with-Penrite-Oil.aspx

I found this interesting article on oils and Zinc. (ZDTP) Modern oils have reduced the amount of zinc in engine oils due to stricter emissions. The zinc is bad for the cats, but good for lubrication. Add to it, that ethanol fuels wash down the lubrication properties in oils and you have a bad combination for an expensive engine.
Our e30's are getting old enough to be able to delete the catalytic converters in some states, so using a higher zinc oil would be very beneficial.

[nando]

There's been a few threads on it over the years. A few oil makes publish their ZDDP levels. Mobil 1 15w50 has something like 1200ppm. I actually really liked the Mobil 1 5W40 turbodiesel truck oil, because it wasn't so thick (especially during winter), but still had something like 1100ppm. I also ran it in our POS Subaru, it made the engine stop sounding like a tractor.

There are other oils that are high in zinc, most of them for diesel trucks, but diesel oil works just fine in a gas car too. I don't know that there's a known "safe" value for ZDDP on an M20, but the concensus seems to be you want around 1100-1200ppm.

also, I don't think there's really strong evidence that ZDDP harms cats. The cat in the E30 was made with rare elements like platinum and seem to last basically forever. I did take mine off at like 220,000 miles but aside from a small hole in the heat shield there wasn't anything wrong with it after decades of running high zinc oils.

[surgeoh]

There's been a few threads on it over the years.

oops, sorry. I've known about oils and zinc for a while now and thought it was good info to pass along.
I guess I should have known it's been talked about before.

[Kevinl]

I use mobil 15w40 in my e30 im sure whatever bmw specced originally had zinc and it keeps the m20 much quieter

[ccsdo5]

There are other oils that are high in zinc, most of them for diesel trucks, but diesel oil works just fine in a gas car too. I don't know that there's a known "safe" value for ZDDP on an M20, but the concensus seems to be you want around 1100-1200ppm.

interesting I just rebuilt my m42 and turbo'd it, I have new cams,pistons/rings ect. I plan on doing my first two oil changes with lucas break in oil which has something like 3,600 ppm I don't have a cat anymore so I'm not worried but afterwards I'm probably going to run rotella 15w-40 for everyday and that's probably like 1400ppm (I think not sure). When I take it to the track I'll most likely put in vavoline vr1 20w-50 ...I don't know if the lifters will like the 20w though it might be too thick.

But I put mobil 1 extended life 5w-30 in my 2002 tacoma coming up on 200,000 miles and I change the oil every 10,000 miles and when I drain it that stuff is still golden. I am nothing but impressed with the mobil 1 oils

[15Michaeljoseph]

I just began making the switch to diesel oil the other day. went to walmart and picked up a gallon of rotella 15w40, (for like $12!!) which will be paired with a Napa Gold (wix) filter. My reasearch has concluded that diesel oil should be used in the e30 due to the detergency and high amounts of ZDDP... especially since we have metal on metal cams. Diesel oil is formulated more like the oils the e30 was designed to run in the 80's. plus it's really cheap compaired to the regular oils. while a 20w50 might seem too thick, that's actually the weight prescribed in the manual. I'm using a 15w40 simply because it's a little lighter, and things wont warm up here in NE untill around March or April, so my change will probably be happening then. Also the store i went to didnt stock 20w50, and i do like to bring the revs up from time to time ;b.

Mobil 1 makes a damn good product, in fact, theres a youtube video of Mobil's one million mile e30, you should look it up. Keep in mind though, that that is the pre-'modern' API regulation Mobil oil.

Also a quick word of warning, (Currently on the shitter so that's why I'm rambling) 'extended mile' oil
changes aren't really worth it unless you use a filter that is recommended for longer intervals. But honestly who doesn't like changing the oil? Nothing like some 'me' time under the e30, opening up the drain plug and having time to inspect your bushings and such while that black oil comes out.

Any one have any experience with magnetic drain plugs?


--Mike

[ELVA164]

Rotella is a good oil and we use it in both our trucks, but it's thicker than anything I'd want to use in my E30 in the Northeast. 15W-40 is okay, as I used to use M! 15W-50, but I think thinner is better with modern synthetics. Don't forget that manual is over 20 years old, and oil has changed quite a bit since then. I've used Mobil 1 0W-40 for a year now and I'm in love. 1,100ppm zinc, perfect cold starts, no extra noise, no seepage I didn't already have, and (a bit) less internal friction.

What do you mean by "experience" with magnetic drain plugs? We use them in the race cars and they can be helpful for keeping smaller bits and shavings out of the swirling oil.

[Bearmw]

"Currently on the shitter..."

R3V sinking to a new low.

[mrsleeve]

nando hit the most of it, from memory,

Mobil turbo Diesel you get at A/Z or walmart is about 1200ppm of ZZDP
Mobil Delvac 1 (SYN) you get at the big truck store or truck stop 1750ppm ZZDP
Mobil Delvac 1300 (conventional TD oil) 1350ppm ZZDP
Mobil 20-50 syn motorcycle and racing 1800ish ppm ZZDP and 1700ppm ZZDP respectively. But both are very expensive and hard to fine and normally special order.

rotelas from shell are 1100ppm ZZDP ( again from memory) as are the dealo variants from cheveron


Val VR1 20-50 1400ppm ZZDP

[15Michaeljoseph]

What do you mean by "experience" with magnetic drain plugs? We use them in the race cars and they can be helpful for keeping smaller bits and shavings out of the swirling oil.

I just mean do they really work well enough and such... I always see the picture in the BavAuto catalog with a big glob of metal shavings on the end of the plug, do they really pick up all that junk or is it more of an embellishment? haha



--Mike

[mrsleeve]

you can get magnetic shells that go around or on the on the bottom of your oil filter as well for doing the very same job just they are far more powerful.

[ELVA164]

I just mean do they really work well enough and such... I always see the picture in the BavAuto catalog with a big glob of metal shavings on the end of the plug, do they really pick up all that junk or is it more of an embellishment? haha



--Mike

Sleeve is right, and you hope not to have a big glob of shavings in any of your oils. That said, they will absolutely pick them up - at least in the motors and gearboxes we use in the shop.

[mrsleeve]

most transmissions have magnets somewhere in them form the factory. If it be someplace on the casing or in the bottom of the pan of an auto, or the drain plug there is a magnet in there someplace. Lots of read diffs have a magnetic plug in them from the factory as well.

[lukeADE335i]

Being in Australia, I've run Penrite oil for the past 20 odd years, it is good stuff.

If you check out their bulletin from 2010, you don't need the 10 tenths racing oil necessarily - their normal HPR synthetics use the same high zinc additives and are much cheaper. I just run their usual HPR 10, which is a 10W50 synthetic - still has the 1200ppm of zinc + their other additives.

Over here, the normal HPR oil is about 50% cheaper than the 10 tenths racing oil.

http://www.penriteoil.com.au/images/PENR0138_Penrite_Zinc%20Tech%20Bulletin.pdf

[ELVA164]

There is also an upper limit to the amount of zinc and phosphorous you want in a regular road engine. I think I remember it being like 1,400ppm when I was reading about it. More than that and the zinc and phosphorous start to soften the tappets and cam lobes.

It's mentioned here:

http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=35836