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Old 05-31-2013, 12:51 PM   #1
jstam
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S52 swap - suspension setup advice?

So the eta is coming out, S52 is going in...

Since I'm picking up ~50lbs on the front end (I'm keeping A/C, etc.) wouldn't I see more understeer after the swap? I really like the handling of the car w/ the m20 and bilstein sports/H&R sports/IE sway bars - pretty neutral and I'd like to retain that.

Anyone have experience to share?
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Old 05-31-2013, 01:22 PM   #2
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Is this a track car or a street car? I'm guessing that its a track car given the forum.

Yes you'll pick up understeer, but its not terrible. For street use you can probably get away with different or adjustable sway bars.

On the track things are more noticeable. You can eliminate all of the understeer, but its harder to do if you cannot adjust the suspension. Its easy if you can adjust the corner weight, Ride height, toe (front and rear), camber (front and rear), spring rates and sway bars. Even then, as conditions change adjustable shocks become very helpful.

I have found through years of tinkering that I ended up spending a lot of money trying different suspensions. I should have saved up and spent $3k on something good from the beginning. <hint> MCS </hint>

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Old 05-31-2013, 02:05 PM   #3
jstam
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as you can see, this car doesn't have the most hard-core track suspension, but that's mostly what I use it for. I've kept the interior and accessories like A/C b/c I like to keep it streetable.

Given that I'm not planning on a whole new suspension now, I guess this discussion comes down to a) front camber plates and b) rear bar settings. There seem to be many opinions about the effect b) has in particular.
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2002 325i (sold)
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Old 05-31-2013, 06:00 PM   #4
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I like the Vorshlag camber plates and since they will work with all suspensions (even really expensive ones) that's money well spent. Set the front end up so that you have zero toe, 3.5 degrees of camber and as much caster as the plates will allow. Put a mark on the plates for this setting. This is your track setting. Then have your alignment guy put a mark for 2.5 degrees of camber, this is your street setting. When you reduce camber, you increase toe, so you should automatically have about 1/8" toe on the street, which will give you decent tire wear.

Put the rear bar on the stiffest setting and see where that gets you.

That should get you by until you put a nice suspension under it.

I have AST 4100s which work well, but others have had some reliability issues with them. Motion Control (MCS) just came out with a single adjustable suspension that's a bit more expensive, but based on recent history it is more reliable and their customer service is top notch. Pony up the extra money up front if you can afford it, you won't be sorry.

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Old 05-31-2013, 08:44 PM   #5
PeteD
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http://www.motioncontrolsuspension.com/products.html

Wow that is a lot of money for suspension. $8,000 for a 3-way.
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Old 05-31-2013, 09:42 PM   #6
kuzimmer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteD View Post
http://www.motioncontrolsuspension.com/products.html

Wow that is a lot of money for suspension. $8,000 for a 3-way.
Yes it is, but I was thinking of these:
http://store.bimmerworld.com/mcs-mot...set-p1937.aspx And for the record that is still expensive. ASTs are almost $1000 cheaper and more than sufficient.

I'm just looking at it from the perspective of buying something once.

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Old 05-31-2013, 09:49 PM   #7
matthugie
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I have an S52 car with just springs/shocks/sways. Camber plates go a long way, I personally went with kmac, and they have made a huge difference.

I will eventually be going full adjustable because it leaves a lot to be desired, but between a) and b), a) will give you better results. Selecting a stiffer bar for b) will increase oversteer, but increasing front grip will do more for you.
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Old 05-31-2013, 10:18 PM   #8
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cmon guys, you're already spending a couple thousand on an engine swap. Might as well spend more money so you can go fast in the bends as well! =]
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Old 05-31-2013, 10:21 PM   #9
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cmon guys, you're already spending a couple thousand on an engine swap. Might as well spend more money so you can go fast in the bends as well! =]
Oh, it goes fast in the bends as well, but not as fast as it could
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Old 05-31-2013, 11:53 PM   #10
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sport springs is a very mild setup at best, there is no way it's neutral either imho.

remember, it's only as good as the weakest link, get some nice sticky tires on there, one of the best things you can do after replacing all the old/worn out e30 suspension parts.

have you done control arms/subframe bushings already etc?
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Old 06-01-2013, 12:57 AM   #11
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Yes it is, but I was thinking of these:
http://store.bimmerworld.com/mcs-mot...set-p1937.aspx And for the record that is still expensive. ASTs are almost $1000 cheaper and more than sufficient.
So true, but the nice thing is the MCS's are the same as the remote reservoir setup, so you can upgrade as money permits to a full remote reservoir suspension without having to start from scratch.
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Old 06-01-2013, 10:08 PM   #12
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Well, up until now the H&R/bilstein sport setup has been quite neutral for me. Car rotates nicely and I'm on star specs.

Bushings aren't in bad shape, but they are stock and I'm putting in new CAB's and subframe bushings. I"m hoping that tightens things up a bit.

I was debating camber plates now or later - sounds like now would be a good time to do them!
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Old 06-02-2013, 12:12 AM   #13
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Camber plates. Yup. Pointy pointy, grippy grippy.

All else being equal, you'll have more front grip at the limit,
(leading to oversteer) and your newfound torque will augment
that as you'll now be able to get (some) throttle oversteer too...

t
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Old 06-02-2013, 03:44 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jstam View Post
Since I'm picking up ~50lbs on the front end (I'm keeping A/C, etc.) wouldn't I see more understeer after the swap?
It will make a difference that you'll notice mostly at turn-in. But it's not as big of a deal as people like to make it sound.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jstam View Post
I really like the handling of the car w/ the m20 and bilstein sports/H&R sports/IE sway bars - pretty neutral and I'd like to retain that.
Simple solution: keep the Bilsteins and IE swaybars. Replace the H&R Sport springs with H&R "Gruppe G" springs or TMS "J-Stock" springs. Set the front sway to the middle position and set the rear sway close to full-soft (about 1/2" sticking out).

If you want the (hard to find) Gruppe G springs, send me a PM. A buddy of mine in Toronto is selling a set.
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Old 06-02-2013, 03:53 AM   #15
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Put the rear bar on the stiffest setting and see where that gets you.
You definitely do NOT want to do that with the Ireland Engineering swaybars! The rear bar is enormous. Even at full-soft, it's heavier than ST/Eibach/etc bars at full-stiff.

Before the 190E Cosworth project, I had an E30 318is with M20 swap: K-Mac camber plates; TMS "J-Stock" springs; Bilstein Sports revalved to "Firehawk" spec; IE front and rear swaybars; 4.10:1 LSD, and 225/45/15 Toyo RA1's. Even with the rear bar at a relatively soft setting, the car was very tail-happy in the dry and almost undriveable in the wet.
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