Let’s talk about Antifa.

[mrsleeve]

Provide something of merit that would convince us they are. I'll accept that as individuals some white supremacists make up their numbers, but to suggest they're a white supremacy organization is unequivocally false. It's akin to saying that the BLM movement is a black supremacy group, which they are not.

This sums up my what my response was going to be rather well. Golf clap and an E beer for cale

Decay


Well If the meme fits.......


Other wise I dont think you know where I get most of my news from, its a rather large myriad of sources. You say I am the one whom cant form an original thought, yet your the one that cant see the things your group actively partakes in, is the very thing you say your against. You and your group just toss out scary names and labels onto others/groups you dont agree with, in the hopes of getting your way and silencing anyone that is not on your PC approved list. That was a tactic employed by REAL fascists to gain and hold onto power, and you are proud to admit to doing such things... You parrot nothing but your "party line" with out so much as an inkling of critical thinking of your own, you are smart enough to understand, but you consistently and willfully fail to even attempt to.

I dont know if its just the fight your getting off on, or if you are too proud to admit your position is a flawed one so you continue to double down at every opportunity, or if you truly are caught up so deep in the antifa echo chamber that you really cant see the forest due to the trees. Come on man I know your much smarter than this......

[ThatOneEuroE30]

This sums up my what my response was going to be rather well. Golf clap and an E beer for cale

Decay


Well If the meme fits.......


Other wise I dont think you know where I get most of my news from, its a rather large myriad of sources. You say I am the one whom cant form an original thought, yet your the one that cant see the things your group actively partakes in, is the very thing you say your against. You and your group just toss out scary names and labels onto others/groups you dont agree with, in the hopes of getting your way and silencing anyone that is not on your PC approved list. That was a tactic employed by REAL fascists to gain and hold onto power, and you are proud to admit to doing such things... You parrot nothing but your "party line" with out so much as an inkling of critical thinking of your own, you are smart enough to understand, but you consistently and willfully fail to even attempt to.

I dont know if its just the fight your getting off on, or if you are too proud to admit your position is a flawed one so you continue to double down at every opportunity, or if you truly are caught up so deep in the antifa echo chamber that you really cant see the forest due to the trees. Come on man I know your much smarter than this......

You know how when you get into an argument about something and realize you’re wrong, but continue arguing because you don’t want to admit it? That’s what’s going on here.


All I’ve been doing is lurking in this thread and its a good laugh.

[z31maniac]

EDIT: sorry, I redacted my post because I was being the asshole that we shouldn't be to each other and that accomplishes nothing.

[z31maniac]

so your opinion is: that a privately-owned venue should have to allow any band to play, even one wearing neo-nazi clothes. the owners and managers should have no say in who gets to play or how it reflects on the venue.

since i apparently have to mansplain our constitution to you, i'll try to do it gently: the first amendment just means you get to say it. it doesn't mean you get a platform to do so on someone else's dime/time.

you can go continue your campaign of tearful-rage emails about alex jones to twitter/youtube/etc now.

Isn't it weird that you constantly accuse me of putting words in your mouth, then you turn around and do the same.

There is a word I'm looking for, but I'm too dumb to think of it. Can you help me?

[decay]

Provide something of merit that would convince us they are. I'll accept that as individuals some white supremacists make up their numbers, but to suggest they're a white supremacy organization is unequivocally false. It's akin to saying that the BLM movement is a black supremacy group, which they are not.

ah yes, the "very good people on both sides" soundbite comes back to us

all you have to do is read quotes directly attributed to the founder

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/proud-boys

[decay]

Isn't it weird that you constantly accuse me of putting words in your mouth, then you turn around and do the same.

There is a word I'm looking for, but I'm too dumb to think of it. Can you help me?

it's a binary outcome. either they get to play or they don't. how else would you have interpreted his statement other than "venue and staff should have to tolerate messages and imagery they object to"?

[z31maniac]

it's a binary outcome. either they get to play or they don't. how else would you have interpreted his statement other than "venue and staff should have to tolerate messages and imagery they object to"?

You attributed Cales statement to something else, which is very strange. You LITERALLY said he was supporting idiots like Alex Jones because he doesn't agree with you.

Then you used "binary" which is typically used for identity politics.

I'm still constantly amazed at your sense of self worth, and inability to understand, well basically anything that isn't "violence to fight violence."

It's sad and intriguing to watch you contradict yourself and at the same time think you're superior.

I guess that's why you argue with a bunch of irrelevant assholes on a BMW forum.

[cale]

ah yes, the "very good people on both sides" soundbite comes back to us

all you have to do is read quotes directly attributed to the founder

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-h...oup/proud-boys

It's still not nazism, therefore it's not neo-nazism. My beliefs do not align with theirs in the least, but from observing them from a distance a reasonable individual will conclude they're assholes, but not calling for the same actions the Nazi's did anywhere in the 30/40's.

[decay]

You attributed Cales statement to something else, which is very strange.

very much sounded like he was saying we should have, or should have been coerced to, let the band play. i don't know how that's a misattribution.

You LITERALLY said he was supporting idiots like Alex Jones because he doesn't agree with you.

ok, i'll admit to using hyperbole and sarcasm to make my point. "waah these venues won't let my band play" is analagous to "waah youtube and twitter won't host my content". clearer now?

Then you used "binary" which is typically used for identity politics.

it's also used in computing. as in "the value of this bit can only be 0 or 1". two possible outcomes. that is all that word meant in the context i used it.

I'm still constantly amazed at your sense of self worth, and inability to understand, well basically anything that isn't "violence to fight violence."

...you realize you're saying this in the middle of a conversation about how antifascist action was in this case and can be handled non-violently, right?

i have an idea. let's replace "neo-nazi band" with something i am 100% sure we both find equally objectionable. if NAMBLA wanted to throw an event at our venue, we would tell them to stick their money where the sun doesn't shine, both because, well, pedophiles, and because the entire local music scene would be like "WHAT THE FUCK (VENUE_NAME)."

i think maybe cale is just being contrarian in the first place, but that was the entirety of my point.

[decay]

All I’ve been doing is lurking in this thread and its a good laugh.

i'm sure everyone else cares that you're entertained just as much as i do

i mean, nothing's more valuable to a discussion than that guy who likes to do the "lol" drive-by

[decay]

It's still not nazism, therefore it's not neo-nazism. My beliefs do not align with theirs in the least, but from observing them from a distance a reasonable individual will conclude they're assholes, but not calling for the same actions the Nazi's did anywhere in the 30/40's.

counterpoint 1: the actual nazis did not go straight to "gas chambers at auschwitz" when hitler took office. it took a lot of sentiment-building to get a country to a place where eventually that was considered socially acceptable by the majority of the populace. i think history has shown us it's best to nip that shit in the bud before it takes root in positions of political power.

counterpoint 2: your analysis shows that the proud boys' rebranding of white supremacy / neo-nazi propaganda is at least successful some of the time. if two ideologies result in the same outcome, i don't really care if they call themselves different names.

[cale]

#1: keyword there, took. Hitler literally erased the opposition by changing the structure of governance with the Enabling Act. Trump nor anyone else would successfully change the US into a dictatorship. There will be civil war long before that occurs. You and Sleeve will be battle buddies before either of you let that shit happen I suspect.

#2: I don't believe they result in the same outcome. Given large enough numbers neo-nazis would literally pick up where the Germans left off before their defeat. Proud boys would likely adopt what would be considered extreme policies, but gasing women and children wouldn't make it onto the to-do list.

Let's stop downplaying what it meant to be a Nazi.

[Exodus_2pt0]

^ Powerful words. Well said.

[decay]

^ Powerful words. Well said.

i don't disagree. having hashed this out, the only place cale and i seem to differ is at what stage in the process of the fruition of fascism that a citizen should start to do something about it.

we have concentration camps *now*, and not for the first time. currently we call them "detention centers", before that it was "japanese internment". i'm not waiting for the mass graves.

[MrBurgundy]

we have concentration camps *now*, we just call them "detention centers". i'm not waiting for the mass graves.