Let’s talk about Antifa.

[decay]

yea im done lol he proved what i figured he was. :hitler::hitler::hitler:

then you are clearly anti-fascism as well.

if you don't want to *call* yourself antifa, that's your right; describe your politics as appropriate, but we've at least found common ground.

ok, who likes metal? i went to a ministry show last night and discovered that al jourgensen wrote us an anthem. it was pretty awesome.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQGm9zvI-ic&t=602s

watch the background display and you'll see the iron front symbol, as well as others.

listen to the audio samples and you'll hear black bloc mentioned, also as a sub-group.

my point here is that it's a decentralized movement and not all of us agree 100% on ideology, or tactics.

[kickinindian]

then you are clearly anti-fascism as well.

if you don't want to *call* yourself antifa, that's your right; describe your politics as appropriate, but we've at least found common ground.

ok, who likes metal? i went to a ministry show last night and discovered that al jourgensen wrote us an anthem. it was pretty awesome.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQGm9zvI-ic&t=602s

watch the background display and you'll see the iron front symbol, as well as others.

listen to the audio samples and you'll hear black bloc mentioned, also as a sub-group.

my point here is that it's a decentralized movement and not all of us agree 100% on ideology, or tactics.

I am def. a libertarian leaning person. i feel people should be allowed to do anything they want as long as it does not damage others or their property, or the earth. Im mostly Anti-religion. most of the division in this country seems to stem from archaic religious values.

[Garage30]

there's more than one flavor. if you see someone wearing a jacket with the iron front logo (see avatar)- they are advocating against 3 things with those arrows: fascism, monarchism, and communism.

that is entirely compatible with my world-view; but right now i consider the first of the three the biggest threat (edit: on american shores).

it's possible that the demographics of people who call themselves anti-fascist look different in europe and america?

Never heard of the Iron front, but they seem to oppose communism aswell, as you said. Cool logo. Antifa started out as the street thug arm of the german communist party in the 1930's, much the same as the Nazi party's street thug department, the S.A.

The red flag in the antifa logo is for communism. So that's why it seems weird to me for anyone opposing communism to roll with antifa. The enemy of my enemy is not always my friend.

As far as I can see the demographics between antifa members here and in the u.s. are fairly similar. They seem to pull the same shit. They see fascism where there isnt any and ignore it within their own ranks. Really, every political party which is to the right of centrism has been protested by them here which makes zero sense. Especially if they are even mildly critical of islam or mass immigration. You will get shit and piss thrown at you. Which is fairly despicable. Obviously my opinion of them is very negative.

So that's why some stuff I have seen you write makes me question if antifa is something you should align yourself with. Because to me, some stuff you wrote makes you incompatible with them imo. In short. At least you look like one, I'll give you that. Maybe a little too old. And lose the well paying job! ;)

[decay]

I am def. a libertarian leaning person. i feel people should be allowed to do anything they want as long as it does not damage others or their property, or the earth.

that leads into a discussion about black bloc and property damage. their violence is not indiscriminate.

they'll break windows at starbucks franchises because that company's supply chains involve both child and prison labor, and that's not ethical.

they'll hit a BofA branch because that company ripped american customers off for many millions of dollars- and the justice system gave them a slap on the wrist.

they perceive all of that, and similar corporate crime, as injustice, and want to send a message that they won't tolerate it.

i won't put a maglite through a window. as i've said, my posture is "stand in defense", i want to make sure peaceful protesters are safe. but i understand why they do what they do.

[TimeMachinE30]

that leads into a discussion about black bloc and property damage. their violence is not indiscriminate.

they'll break windows at starbucks franchises because that company's supply chains involve both child and prison labor, and that's not ethical.

they'll hit a BofA branch because that company ripped american customers off for many millions of dollars- and the justice system gave them a slap on the wrist.

they perceive all of that, and similar corporate crime, as injustice, and want to send a message that they won't tolerate it.

i won't put a maglite through a window. as i've said, my posture is "stand in defense", i want to make sure peaceful protesters are safe. but i understand why they do what they do.

If a person of these listed organizations were to bash in the car window of an antifa person or burn their house down, would that be OK?

[kickinindian]

i dont feel any sympathy if a corporate building is trashed.

idk i feel like all this bickering and name calling is pointless and the end of our republic draws near. we are very close to collapsing the same as the roman republic. One political fiasco that triggers the right people to do something drastic and its all over.

[decay]

If a person of these listed organizations were to bash in the car window of an antifa person or burn their house down, would that be OK?

i didn't say what the black bloc does is okay. you quoted the part where i said i would not take such action.

i said i understand why they do it. i share their outrage, but not their tactics.

[decay]

Never heard of the Iron front, but they seem to oppose communism aswell, as you said. Cool logo. Antifa started out as the street thug arm of the german communist party in the 1930's, much the same as the Nazi party's street thug department, the S.A.

The red flag in the antifa logo is for communism. So that's why it seems weird to me for anyone opposing communism to roll with antifa. The enemy of my enemy is not always my friend.

the iron front originated at the same time; just as now, not all of those aligned against the nazis shared 100% of the same ideals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Front

i personally think that's a good thing. i suppose i do have some socialist ideals, but that's a topic discussed in a thread that already got locked.

As far as I can see the demographics between antifa members here and in the u.s. are fairly similar. They seem to pull the same shit. They see fascism where there isnt any and ignore it within their own ranks. Really, every political party which is to the right of centrism has been protested by them here which makes zero sense. Especially if they are even mildly critical of islam or mass immigration. You will get shit and piss thrown at you. Which is fairly despicable. Obviously my opinion of them is very negative.

feces being thrown is gross and even at the violent events in berkeley i haven't seen that happen here.

honestly, i think immigration as an issue is overblown in america. it's much more relevant in europe where you've got refugees walking in from the middle east through turkey or coming over on boats from africa.

So that's why some stuff I have seen you write makes me question if antifa is something you should align yourself with. Because to me, some stuff you wrote makes you incompatible with them imo. In short. At least you look like one, I'll give you that. Maybe a little too old. And lose the well paying job! ;)

what you're telling me here makes me think there is a difference between the movements in europe and america. here, it's more about stopping the rise of white nationalism that was emboldened by drumpf's election. i'll stop showing up to events and associating with the movement when assholes stop holding rallies and showing up with nazi flags, shields, and truncheons.

and i've been in mosh pits the past two nights, buddy. i'm not too old to start some shit :P

[Mediumrarechicken]

[decay]

ssh. the adults are talking.

[mbonder]

i dont feel any sympathy if a corporate building is trashed.

idk i feel like all this bickering and name calling is pointless and the end of our republic draws near. we are very close to collapsing the same as the roman republic. One political fiasco that triggers the right people to do something drastic and its all over.

I haven't commented in this thread in the least, nor am I really interested in the semantics of the discussion, but I had to comment on this quote because I find it happening so frequently.

I don't know why people make this association. The Roman Empire fell for a number of reasons, but the largest of those reasons was the weakening of their military as well as invasion from outsiders (mainly from Central and Eastern Europe, collectively known as the Germanic Tribes, individually the Huns, Goths, Lombards, etc). You might say that some of this was brought on by poor leadership and a struggling economy as well, so there are four main principles to their demise.

Let's compare those four principles to the US:

Military-The US still has the largest military as well as the most powerful military in the world. Despite dissatisfaction toward the President himself, the office of the Presidency is fairly beyond reproach and the military respects the office. The US spends billions each year funding its military, if anything it'll get stronger, not weaker under Trump.

Invasion-Mostly due to the circumstances of my first point as well as the geography of North America, there will be no invasion of the US anytime soon.

Poor Leadership-This might be the only leg that anyone has to stand on in this argument, although I would argue that the President, even though tremendously powerful, actually doesn't exert nearly as much power in relation to the power the Roman Dictators were able to exert.

Struggling Economy-Not recently! I do think we are in for a correction sometime soon, however, even the Great Depression couldn't bring down the US republic, so despite tax reforms of various kinds and money being pushed toward the wealthy disproportionately, I don't think the economy will weaken to the point where the country as a whole disintegrates.


The reality is that a more interconnected, global world has created for the first world countries an insulation against revolution. The economy of all is now very connected to the economies of any one single nation so the powers that be have a vested interest in keeping everyone at least partially happy so that the global world keeps on chugging along. 300 years ago revolution was seen as an opportunity for other countries to exploit, now it's seen as a mess that needs to be cleaned up. There's a reason why revolutions have occurred in small isolated countries over the last 50 years, the big boys want to keep it that way. Everything is too intertwined, I'm not saying that the US as we know it will live forever, but I am saying that it is far from crumbling in any sense.

[kickinindian]

I haven't commented in this thread in the least, nor am I really interested in the semantics of the discussion, but I had to comment on this quote because I find it happening so frequently.

I don't know why people make this association. The Roman Empire fell for a number of reasons, but the largest of those reasons was the weakening of their military as well as invasion from outsiders (mainly from Central and Eastern Europe, collectively known as the Germanic Tribes, individually the Huns, Goths, Lombards, etc). You might say that some of this was brought on by poor leadership and a struggling economy as well, so there are four main principles to their demise.

Let's compare those four principles to the US:

Military-The US still has the largest military as well as the most powerful military in the world. Despite dissatisfaction toward the President himself, the office of the Presidency is fairly beyond reproach and the military respects the office. The US spends billions each year funding its military, if anything it'll get stronger, not weaker under Trump.

Invasion-Mostly due to the circumstances of my first point as well as the geography of North America, there will be no invasion of the US anytime soon.

Poor Leadership-This might be the only leg that anyone has to stand on in this argument, although I would argue that the President, even though tremendously powerful, actually doesn't exert nearly as much power in relation to the power the Roman Dictators were able to exert.

Struggling Economy-Not recently! I do think we are in for a correction sometime soon, however, even the Great Depression couldn't bring down the US republic, so despite tax reforms of various kinds and money being pushed toward the wealthy disproportionately, I don't think the economy will weaken to the point where the country as a whole disintegrates.


The reality is that a more interconnected, global world has created for the first world countries an insulation against revolution. The economy of all is now very connected to the economies of any one single nation so the powers that be have a vested interest in keeping everyone at least partially happy so that the global world keeps on chugging along. 300 years ago revolution was seen as an opportunity for other countries to exploit, now it's seen as a mess that needs to be cleaned up. There's a reason why revolutions have occurred in small isolated countries over the last 50 years, the big boys want to keep it that way. Everything is too intertwined, I'm not saying that the US as we know it will live forever, but I am saying that it is far from crumbling in any sense.

See friend that's where you are wrong, I'm talking about the republic of Rome, not the Empire. The United States will still be around for a long time but not with the same government.

Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk

[Exodus_2pt0]

i dont feel any sympathy if a corporate building is trashed.

Why not?

[mbonder]

See friend that's where you are wrong, I'm talking about the republic of Rome, not the Empire. The United States will still be around for a long time but not with the same government.

Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk

Ok fine, let's use the Roman Republic as the example. The first dictator of Rome was Octavian, or Caesar Augustus (One could argue that Julius Caesar was the first, but he was slaughtered several months after gaining the title of dictator for life). Octavian came to power as the dictator for life as a result of the civil war between his armies and those of Mark Antony, thus ending the Roman Republic.

Using that as our premise, what would lead to a full-scale civil war in the US? You can reference my point about the strength of the US military from earlier, there just isn't the possibility of an all-out civil war, at least none that I can see. Our military shows no sign of disaffection over the government so I see no clear sign that a civil war is fast approaching.

Additionally, Rome was founded in something like 750BC and Octavian comes to power in what, 27BC? The Republic began with the overthrow of the last Etruscan King, Tarquin the Proud in 509BC, so the Roman Republic stood for nearly 500 years. If we follow your premise that the US is mirroring the Roman Republic, we've only got another 250 years to go!

So you see friend, you are in fact wrong. This metaphor is overplayed and lacks an actual understanding of what the Roman Republic or Empire actually looked like.

[z31maniac]

i dont feel any sympathy if a corporate building is trashed.

idk i feel like all this bickering and name calling is pointless and the end of our republic draws near. we are very close to collapsing the same as the roman republic. One political fiasco that triggers the right people to do something drastic and its all over.

See friend that's where you are wrong, I'm talking about the republic of Rome, not the Empire. The United States will still be around for a long time but not with the same government.

Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk

OK, then go to your buried bunker out in the Wyoming farmland with your apocalypse fantasies and leave the rest of us alone.

Jesus some of you wouldn't pass a psyche test to prevent being admitted.